Disappointment

InfamousTuba I do find these multi roaster subscriptions can sometimes be an excuse for roasters to offload coffee that isn’t selling well, it is not always the case and you can get great exclusive lots for a great price but I have seen some coffees appear that have been for sale for a few months already

This is very true….and logical.

Companies who aggregate deals from different roasters on a monthly basis can be directly compared to those companies who send you a box of wine for a supposedly cheap price and then you get a wine selection each month, or in the old days, book clubs, music clubs etc.. etc..

Coffee is a commodity, it has a traded standardised price (unless direct from farm, which has it’s own issues). So a roaster needs to add on an amount of margin to make it worth their while. They can’t easily reduce that margin and are generally unwilling to do so. Remembering that speciality high quality roasters who are good, generally are not into bulk roasting and can sell everything they roast without problems. It’s like getting a good builder, you normally have to wait, they will not be available immediately!

There are some situations where roasters will discount and sell to the coffee amalgamators (who need to make margin on the beans as well):

• They have some old coffee that needs finishing
• Business is very slow and they need to shift stuff (there may be lots of reasons)
• They are not that good
• They are a bulk roaster, simply churning out omni roasts.
• They are new roasters/startups who see it as free advertising
• The coffee is only available as a special by this route, so they are making normal margin and you are paying more than it’s worth after the aggregators margin is added on. The old RRP false discount thing.
• You are getting a great deal, on excellent quality expensive coffee and a top quality roast. The roaster is taking massive hit and even with the aggregators margin added on, it’s a bargain.

How realistic does the last one sound?

dfk41 asked: “Does anyone else have any thoughts on how we can progress this topic?”

Beyond giving each other a heads-up when we find something good, not really…there are a few widespread issues:

Most coffee is roasted then despatched ASAP to fulfil orders and the customer’s expectation of receiving recently roasted product. Rather than, the coffee being roasted, rested for a couple of days & QC’d.

It would be interesting to know whether roasters QC their coffee after certain periods in the packaging in which it is despatched. I have received coffee in sealed packaging that actually has holes in it and is not airtight.

Roasters, from my discussions with them, don’t seem to be very adept at brewing. I have heard just about every excuse imaginable as to why their coffee doesn’t met expectation, such as:

Your burrs are blunt (how do they know this, it will take the rest of my life to wear out my hand grinder burrs!)

You can’t brew coffee by pour over as it is fraught with issues (how do they expect customers to brew coffee that is filter roasted?) The brew method & detailed recipe as to how they achieved the notes on the bag is absent.

Your grinder makes too many fines (how many do the roaster’s grinder make, how many should I have, how do I check/correct this, why are they particularly interested in fines rather than grind size?)

They sometimes blame water, but can’t tell you what properties to look for (A couple have, like Prodigal & Square Mile for example).

Filter roasts have, for the larger part, got darker compared to 6-7 years ago. Some roasters have stated this to me, but never been clear as to why. How can we taste the, sweet, delicate acidity of, say, pears against the overriding background of burnt wood/toast scrapings (I don’t mean that coffee that is fruity/bright is better, just that if the coffee is roasted more towards generic roast flavours, like Illy or a fairly good supermarket bean/Nespresso pod, how are these stated notes supposed to compete in the cup?

MWJB @dfk41

I have stopped giving feed back to roasters especially if the brews aren’t good as expected - taste, notes, ….

Some are straightaway apologetic and offer a refund or replacement, which I refuse. This will not progress beyond this in 95% of cases. One roaster, whom I regularly purchase beans from, insisted on refund as a principle, while I stood my ground. Eventually, we resolved it as the refund went to a charity. This is good.

Otherwise, they will offer standard excuses like water, storage, a lack of a good grinder and brewing guides.

One popular roaster, with whom I have had some good coffee, blamed the brew ratio calling 1:15 as too strong a ratio and it was hardly a surprise the brew wasn’t good. He recommended 55g/L to 60g/L. I advised the roaster it is nothing to do with the ratio as the coffee neither tasted good nor had any notes as described, 1:15 ratio is a standard practice in the brew world and they ought to have known better. The roaster also indicated 9% and 12% 400 Kruve sifting offer little value to brewers. This roaster doesn’t indicate roast degree and said none of his customers is interested in the roast degree or what their take on the coffee is.

IMO, evasive responses like these mean they not only lose their credibility a bit but also result in they letting their moral and QA standards slip.

Countless experiences like these taught me contacting roasters re-a bad batch offer little value to the end consumers like self. :-)

Dog n Hat international subscription is competitively priced, IMO. It is a great deal for someone looking at international varieties. Based on my limited experience, it can be a hit and miss for a brewer like me as I am fuzzy with taste, roast and notes. I no longer buy from them as their coffee doesn’t suit my profile, but they are great if one were to consider exploring or looking for varieties.

It doesn’t diminish

Teaboy I would let the coffee rest for two weeks post roast, then portion some into the airscape and freeze the rest.

In regards to the topic. I’ve found some roasters beans don’t taste anything like the tastes notes (or nothing at all) and then I will not buy from them again. I do find that cost is usually a good indicator of quality, I very rarely buy kilo bags if at all. Would agree on the dog and hat quality comments. I tend to only find one bag a month that lines up with the tasting notes. I’ve paused mine for a while and have just bitten the Bullet with paying more.

Tal I wouldn’t put too much store in brew time, different coffees brew at different speeds for equivalent extractions, especially if you have a large amount of liquid above the bed at the time you stop pouring, as this increases brew time variance.

In Hoffmann’s Hario white filter test, 2 of the Japanese white 02 papers he tried, completed at 2:20 & 2:35 respectively.

Focus on grind size, keeping to pour times & resulting taste balance.

On travel to Japan, I picked up quite a lot from Kurasu and a bag from LILO. They were all fantastic, delivering the stated notes in the recommended brew methods and recipes. The only stuff I’ve had that consistently does that closer to home is from The Picky Chemist, but those are premium micro lots roasted exceptionallly and so command luxury prices.

I suppose one thing I would be up for is sharing larger import orders and then shipping on from there. But, for now, I’ve started a Tim Wendleboe subscription, which I will check out - if it disappoints, I move to one from Kurasu or LILO.