At this point, I am not going to name names, but I will. I have ordered some beans from a new roaster to me. Having sort of enjoyed them I thought about ordering some more, but before I did, I emailed them to ask why they did not put a 'roasted on' label/stamp when that is the sort of info the home user likes. I received a long winded reply telling me all about food labelling requirements, part of which I paste here: **'We did contemplate putting both dates on a bag, but this confuses many customers. (In our early days, some of our coffees just used to have the roast date on and some customers complained as they thought it was a “expired” best before date!) The compromise we came up with is to comply with the law but make it clear how this relates to the roast date.'** I quite naturally replied saying that might be as it may, but I am not talking about fulfilling legal requirements. I am talking about a firm claiming to be specialist roasters giving their customer base the type of information they require. I placed my next order, it turned up and I have just opened it. Of the two bags, one has neither a best before date or a roasted on date. The other has no best before but a roasted on date of June 5th making it already more than 3 weeks past roast. In addition, the bag has two small holes in it. Since the owner did not bother replying to my second email, then I can only think of two scenarios. A genuine set of mistakes or he somehow mistakenly thinks he can take the pi$$ out of me. Neither scenario is acceptable, to me anyway

> @"dfk41"#p68981 In addition, the bag has two small holes in it. Name them.

@"MWJB"#p68983 - @"dfk41"#4 - I agree with Mark in this instance. I think it’s best for you to name them, or people will start making assumptions about who the roaster is by looking at your previous posts - as I had and made “educated” guesses, but there’s no way to know for sure. I think it’s best to be very clear in this case, and naming seems to be the right approach, to me at least.

@"DavecUK"#p68989 [URL=https://i.imgur.com/YPcL7bN.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/YPcL7bN.jpeg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/HQ2wyna.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/HQ2wyna.jpeg[/IMG][/URL] I did not want to come on and do a hatchet job. I have emailed them. Will update accordingly

A word of caution

DavecUK

I have never believed in “keeping quiet”, it doesn’t benefit us, or the businesses that serve us. I have worked with many companies and never stopped or restricted people making negative comments about them. I only ask people keep it factual and don’t use hyperbole.

You owe it to other forum members to simply name them…then they can decide whether to avoid the roaster or not. I found their reasons interesting for not including roast date on the bag, something I believe at the very least is a huge mistake. There should also always be a batch number on coffee.

dfk41

DavecUK

I did not want to come on and do a hatchet job. I have emailed them. Will update accordingly

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - thanks DFK. My assumption was correct, unfortunately. 😭

It’s a shame as many in this forum seem to like them. And it would be great if they could do the job properly. Others do it, so can’t see why they can’t.

Cuprajake

I’ve had loads of shite coffee recently

Makes me just want to sell up and not bother

DavecUK

Cuprajake I’ve had loads of shite coffee recently

The truth and factual feedback is the way everything improves, including roasters. The first route to roasting better, is to have an open mind so you are able to question how you are doing things.

Cuprajake

Yeah orrr they just fob you off🤣

dfk41

MWJB

I’m getting very wary of packaging as a whole, I often make small orders, so I can get coffee in 150g tins rather than bags.

I had a compostible bag from Origin that was clearly always open at the side pleats at the top, Skylark’s coffee came in an un coated paper, non-resealable bag.

HarveyMushman

MWJB I had a compostible bag from Origin that was clearly always open at the side pleats at the top

I emailed them about this exact problem 12 months ago after a kilo turned up very clearly not sealed. Obviously not a priority for them to resolve.

So many companies laser-focussed on the B-Corp nonsense that they’ll sacrifice quality just to get their virtue signalling stamp.

whinmoor85

It’s never bothered me TBH because they’re coffee’s are usually decent, I just make the assumption they’ve been rested by the time they arrive.

dfk41

whinmoor85 Why should you have to assume anything though? Their bags have a clear space on them to show a Roasted on date. I do not believe in coincidences any more than I believe in fairies. The chances of me questioning the firm, receiving a non sensical reply then answering that reply, only to find the next order is sent out with beans roasted 25 days ago for one bag, and absolutely no information on the other is an poor humour. The reason beans have to have at least a batch number on is so that they are traceable. We will see what tomorrow brings but I say with confidence that they will not be having my custom again. I have come across many business owners who think they are clever….few are

MWJB

dfk41 Maybe a daft question, but the bag with the hole is definitely the bag that actually holds the beans? The reason I ask is that I bought some beans from them and I received a bag that was slightly damaged, but this was just a bag around the bag that actually held the beans (which was intact).

That’s a shame, they have supplied the best coffee I have had this year (plus a couple of, cheaper, impulse purchases on my part, that didn’t pan out - but this is typical of any roaster). The holes in the bag are an issue (I’d expect replacement), for me the roast date is not.

If you blacklist every roaster that does something you don’t like, you won’t have anyone you want to regularly buy coffee from…just like I don’t ☺️

dfk41

MWJB Mark, I will see if I can work out whether the hole goes into the bag or not tomorrow in the daylight. If you were paying £37.40 per 500 gms (as I know you often do) would you be happy receiving something roasted 24 days previously? I know the beans will be fine but it will take me 2 weeks to get through 500 gms of beans for brewed coffee as I also drink espresso based. The point being when you are paying a premium price then I personally expect a premium service. I know folks often think me very unreasonable! I am not. I just expect things to do what they say on the tin. A local roaster to me that I often take a 3 month sub to, sent me the first batch of beans that arrived yesterday. £22 per kilo. They sent the wrong bean. I emailed them to tell them. I did not ask for an exchange or refund or anything like that. I will drink them and probably enjoy the blend as will my guests. SO I can be and often am reasonable!

MWJB

dfk41 If you were paying £37.40 per 500 gms (as I know you often do) would you be happy receiving something roasted 24 days previously?

I bought a couple of bags from Prodigal Coffee (one of which was £14.67/100g, plus shipping), they recommended 4-6 weeks resting (though I did initially open the bags on receipt), the coffee was very much improved in one case, a little improved in the other. Personally. I’d prefer roasters who are aware of the need for longer rest times to hold the coffee back until ready to brew, so I can order & get straight into it.

dfk41

MWJB I cannot argue with that Mark, except to say, when we order beans, they arrive with a certain expectation attached to them. The fancy packaging, the backdrop story etc. If they arrived in a plain white bag, all looking the same with a simple marker pen note saying the name and nothing else, the the bar of expectation would be so much lower. Half the fun is waiting and savouring what is to come…….or not as the case maybe!

JonWoo187

MWJB Does that ridiculous cost come with a side order of Rao arrogance? What good can 100 grams be? All the better reason to home roast and easily be on par and usually better than most any commercial roaster worldwide.

drdre89

God Bless you and God Bless President Trump

Platypus

For me personally, having a roast date is absolutely essential . The info helps me to know where the coffee is “at” , it gives me trust in the roaster that they are being transparent with nothing to hide and confidence that they actually care about the needs of the customer. If they can write some long winded descriptor regarding flavour notes , processing etc and attach an eye catching label often with a QR code then surely they can print a basic roast date and recommended drinking timeframe suggestion to avoid customer confusion?
The devil is in the detail and being consistent and giving information on a product is more likely to keep customers happy and loyal.
I roast my own very often for personal use and I wouldn’t dream of not writing the date on the bag, it’s just basic common sense surely?

MWJB

Platypus For me personally, having a roast date is absolutely essential . The info helps me to know where the coffee is “at”

Do all coffees/roasts come on song at the same resting time? How do you determine this without brewing the coffee?

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 "We did contemplate putting both dates on a bag, but this confuses many customers. (In our early days, some of our coffees just used to have the roast date on and some customers complained as they thought it was a “expired” best before date!) The compromise we came up with is to comply with the law but make it clear how this relates to the roast date.’

The more I read this, the more I roll my eyes. Plenty of other roasters have both dates on the label. Even so, say, if their customer base cannot distinguish between the terms “Best Before Date” and “Roasted On Date”, then they could simply put the “Roasted on Date” and right next to it a sentence saying “Best consumed within 3 months from the roast date”.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam @dfk41

I received exactly the same reply on more than one occasion. We know one can derive the roast date from BBE. The thing is they put the BBE and a note stating “6 months from the roast date”.

I do ask them the roast date before placing an order and would only buy if they are roasted 2 weeks before from the date of enquiry. Because, I tend to open the filter bags immediately for filter and I prefer rested bags even for filter.

What I find not acceptable from any roaster is receiving coffee roasted weeks ago when I am prepared to pay £100 a KG. 😊

dfk41

Right chaps (and whatever the female version is!), it is back to the working week. I have heard from Paul, the director to say he is not in today but will contact me tomorrow. I am quite happy with that answer for the moment. There is a possibility that a simple series of errors has occurred………let us wait and see