Following a trip to Naples a few months ago, I literally fell in love with "lever espresso" and we went all around town to taste different coffees and machines (with a lever, of course). Just before we went there, I was ready to pull the trigger on a ECM Synchronika, but, of course, not anymore :-) Back home, I looked at the ACS (not sure which one yet, though), find your forum and read carefully everything for months, now. Looking for advice, my first question, though, won't be on espresso machines but on grinders. First of all, I can see than many of you own a Niche 2. I was looking at the Ceado's but see that for different reasons it's not the most recommended grinder on this forum. But my main problem is not only the choice of a good grinder, it's about the different types of coffee that we will learn to make in the future. For example, I like espressos and am not ready to compromise on the learning curve to find the best process and the best coffees. My wife, on the contrary, prefers lungo style and drinks some of them during the day. And here is the issue. Lungos seem to need coarser grinding than espresso. I read that if you use the same grind for both, espressos will be under-extracted and lungos will be too strong and bitter. And changing the grind on the grinder depending of what you're about to brew would be considered bad practice, if I read correctly. I don't fancy having two grinders, of course. Nor would I get a set of two burrs for the Niche 2 and change the burr many times a day :-) Would you please give me some clues to address the issue?

@"plouf"#p70301 I am so tempted to say buy what suits you matey and your wife takes second place! I do not mean that in a horrible way but it is true. In coffee, finding a single item that is capable of spanning 2 brewing arenas is neigh on impossible, so why try? I am a lever owner (ACS Evo Leva Mark One) that I have owned ever since the very first batch were released in June 2021 and am still delighted with it. The style of coffee you mention is a darker roasted bean. As a generalisation you might find you get a better flavour profile from a Niche Zero that is a conical burr than a Niche Duo that is a flat burr. You would need to do a side by side to find out. Just yesterday I did a side by side between the Niche Zero and a Solo T64 fitted with SSP Red Speed burrs (flat, 64mm) using a darker roasted bean and I actually preferred the Niche which some will not agree with, but it is a personal thing. SO, my advice to you is state where about's you are and see if you can find a member somewhere near to you and go try their gear. I do not think many on here will tell you to go past the ACS Evo Leva for many many reasons. As far as the grinder is concerned, you can listen to the opinion of others but you do not drink opinions!

Thanks for your answer, dfk41! Could you please elaborate a bit on the comparison between the Niche Zero and the Niche Duo on the topic of darker roasted bean?

@"plouf"#p70307 I had a friend round on Sunday who has a Lelit Elizabeth but he has not even opened the box and has owned it for 18 months. He wanted a grinder around £500. I had the two mentioned. Making sure both grinders were dialled in correctly, and using the same beans in both (Java Jampit) the taste from the nIche was more 'earthy' and fuller with nice mouthfeel. The T 64 the shot was slightly thinner and a completely different set of tasting notes. I am not very good at describing flavours but both of us preferred the Niche. That said though, if I had another friend around then the opposite could have been found which is why it is important to try before you buy

Really make sense, many thanks again.

Some grinders are pretty good at going back and forth between settings, my Eureka Mignon Facile and Specialita, while superb grinders. You wouldn't want to switch beans more often than a bag at a time, as the dial was tiny and very sensitive to change. Tiny adjustment had a big impact on shot times. I have replaced both Eureka grinders with a Niche Duo, bought from the forum, and I can switch between beans quite happily without worry that I'll be miles off each time. So I think a niche Zero or duo could suit your needs. I doubt a lungo shot requires that significant a change in grind settings that you'd warrant a second grinder for it.

tbf the difference you're wanting is only a minute change so you could simply up dose or down dose, or change your grind, niche zero would work well for this imo, and is a good entry level (£500 - mind blown) grinder, be warned though if you want to move to lighter beans in the future you more than likely will want a flat grinder, by then you will be well down the rabbit hole, and be able to justify a second grinder on the counter, have you thought about an americano vs lungo

Hi Cuprajake, and thanks for your reply. Two interesting points in your message: a) tell me if I read you well: darker roast is better grinded with a conical burr (like the Niche Zero) while lighter beans (or roasts, if I'm correct) would rather ask for a flat burr (like the Niche Duo). I know I probably simplify a bit too much but is it the idea you explained? b) in my mind, americano and lungo where quite synonymous. Looks like there is a difference though. I should make some research this morning :-) cheers for now

Yes and no https://youtu.be/3XYTi6OBecA?si=EoW3jj1Eesno-8KY There's subtle differences if you have both grinders next to each other Not the vast gap online folk would make you believe. But when it comes to the niche zero I found it not the best for lighter roasts offering a bit of astringency Vs the duo and my mazzer. Most grinders will be adequate for what you want it comes down to looks and ease of use. Which the zero offers so it's a great starting point and has good resale value when you out grow it

> @"plouf"#p70334 in my mind, americano and lungo where quite synonymous. Looks like there is a difference though. In very simplistic terms: Americano: pour an espresso over 180ml of water or so. The shorter version of this is a long black, where you pour an espresso over 60ml of water or so. Lungo: keep running the espresso shot for longer than usual.

Or dilute less haha 36g shot and 30g of water 😂👍

Looking for advice on lever machine and grinder

plouf

So, with the double spout double portafilter, I can put safely 17 g of coffee and make two single espressos, then.

But what about the time?

dfk41

plouf You could put 17 gms of coffee into the larger basket then put that basket into the single or double spouted pf. The pf makes no difference. When using 17 gms or so, the normal target would be 17gm in, 34 gms out in 30 seconds from first drips. Treat that as a guide rather than a hard and fast rule….always let taste dictate!

plouf

dfk41

Many thanks!

By the way, I have not mastered anything to be true, being just in discovery phase…

And of course, I will try the double espressos as well, of course!

Tal

dfk41 I always assumed timing was done from second you hit go on your machine, rather than first drops of coffee?

dfk41

plouf Have fun with your adventures! It is not a quick process moving from student to professor!

Adrianmsmith

dfk41 @plouf @Tal

You already had a good set of answers from David .

If you ask 10 of us to answer the same question you will get at least 13 different answers and all of them correct!!

@plouf what was your previous machine, what are you familiar with.

For my 10p worth which will be the furthest from Davids parameters mainly because my wife and myself do not drink espresso as a shot .

I make an americano for my wife and milk based for me. Cant really give it a name as i vary the ratios of milk to espresso so not sure if it’s a flat white, latte, cappuccino etc but its preferred to what we get when out and about!!

So for me

I prefer the stock acs basket to my ims baskets.

Acs and ims both do 26 and 32mm baskets.

The acs are .2mm or so smaller diameter than the ims.

Not sure what country you are in but for a cheap and practical tamper i use… this 54.4mm which is a perfect fit for the ACS https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/Mobile/en/Precision-Coffee-Tamper-544mm/m-m-5414.aspx

They deliver world wide i believe but I order from the UK.

Loads to choose from, just dont get sucked in to thinking they’re the same as breville, sage 54mm, which are actually a smaller diameter.

Depending on grind etc i dose 20 to 22g in to the 32mm basket. Currently 21.5g for me and 22g decaf for my wife.

Does your machine have the second screen for the dose system or do you have standard lever setup?

That will vary the suggestions exactly and how to help you more will vary a bit depending what you have!!

But, basically assuming you have a pre infusion pressure typically regarded standard let’s say 2.5 bars, pull the lever. If you pull it slowly (i see you have the new flush lever on already) and get used to the pump running for the full travel of the lever you will have less air in the cylinder and a slightly increased maximum pressure.

Let pre infusion happen typically until you get a drip. Typically 4 to 10 seconds then lift the lever for the main shot.

At your desired time, pressure, weight dump the shot or move the cup and place your drip tray. Thats the bit that will be different depending on your exact machine.

For me i thought the spouted portafilters and single dose baskets were to use as decoration 🫣🤭 or lose in “that drawer”!!

I like to brew directly in mugs mainly so the bottomless portafilter is the perfect choice for me as im not interested in splitting the shot between 2 and i hate the extra cleaning involved!!

plouf

As of tomorrow, I will be in England till Sunday evening, visiting friends in Kent. I’m looking for a good tamper for 54 mm baskets. Do you think I’d rather look for shops in London or is it better to find something online?

dfk41

Tal Not on a lever machine……when you drop the lever, on an Evo Leva the pump kicks in causing pre infusion at around 2.5 bar (you can alter this). Once a few drops come through you lift the lever causing the spring to exert maximum pressure on the puck. On a pump machine, as soon as you start the pump off, the puck is exposed to maximum pressure. Hope that makes sense

dfk41

Tal I would keep things as they are for the moment. The standard baskets are quite good but a lot of folks go for IMS baskets (they cost a few quid but……). The IMS will need a slightly larger tamper. We are splitting hairs here. 54mm as opposed to say 54.55mm. Online is probably the best choice. Some of us use Torr Tampers

It seems they have ditched their website in favour of Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/TORRTOYS1/

Tal

dfk41 yes that makes sense. Never used a lever so I appreciate the explanation!

plouf

dfk41

I must admit that I’m a bit lost here :-). You did answer to my question, didn’t you?

I have no intention to change from the standard baskets for the moment, just get a new tamper, as I guess the pressure I apply is not correct, to say the least. So I’d like to find a better tamper, probably a dynamometric one.

So if I read you well, I need a tamper for 54 mm baskets and I’d rather look for something online. Is that what you explained, dfk41?

I told you before, I’m a real beginner :-)

Adrianmsmith

plouf

Post us a few pictures of your exact machine and all your extras, will be easier then to guide you …

And remember, sage, breville 54mm baskets and gadgets are slightly smaller than ACS , san Marco if you are shopping on Amazon!!!

plouf

Adrianmsmith

I’m leaving for a meeting just now and tomorrow I’m going to England very early, so not sure I will find time to take and post any picture before Monday. But thanks already for your detailed answer.

It’s standard lever setup and I use the same process you described in your post. Pre-infusion is indeed at 2,5 bars for me.

The only thing that may be different, is that I enjoy already the 8.5 g and it’s really a pleasure to do it again and again lol. So, it won’t end soon in “that drawer”!

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