Hi all, I've been lurking forums and finally decided to get a lever machine, and narrowed it down to between the Nurri Leva and the ACS Vostok/Evo Leva 2. The cost for both is rather similar where i'm from, but the ACS direct will end up 20% higher than the Nurri with Zebrano. I'm comfortable with doing my own repairs and modifications. Currently i'm trying to compare the Nurri vs ACS Differences mapped are: 1. Pressure changes can be done for Nurri while pulling a shot (not sure about ACS) 2. ACS has more auto features than the Nurri (manual shot termination and pre-infusion) - no preference 3. ACS has better steel (corrosion resistance) 4. Nurri needs a physical electrical cutoff installed for the boiler at set temperature (bi-metal piece at the boiler) - can be retrofitted at low cost. 5. ACS has 3 single PIDs while Nurri has one PID with 3 outputs/inputs - I'm not sure about the pros/cons of this in terms of accuracy/reliability Please correct me if i'm wrong on the above. Now the big question is, do I go for the ACS or the Nurri? Both seem make great coffees, but preference is to get the machine that is more reliable, and won't break down as often. Looks are equally attractive (or unattractive :D) to me, so that's totally not a concern, but if safety and reliability of the ACS is much higher, that would sway my purchase decision, i know the ACS has a lever safety, but as long as i engage the pump on the Nurri before pulling the lever, i should be safe right? Very sorry, I couldn't find an answer to this dilemma, after reading through all sorts of forums and pages, even German ones.

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 Greetings! Could you expand a bit on the pricing please? The 2 machines are sold through different sales models. One sells directly meaning there is no 'dealer' profit (or service) to pay for and the other sells through established dealer networks. Your statement that the ACS direct is 20% dearer leaves me scratching my head a little!

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 Hi, regarding pricing, where are you located please. I have similar thoughts to @"dfk41"#4 . You probably guessed but i can only recommend ACS . I only watched reviews and videos of the Nurri but can say comparing to my real life ACS Evo1 and 2 (and a Vesuvius pressure profiler for that matter) i am not left wanting a Nurri!! It would be a step backwards in my opinion. As you touched on, materials and build of the ACS are great The ability to adjust pre infusion pressure when necessary and the ability to end the shot either manually or after a set pressure or time is reached is great. You can call me idle, i do not mind!!

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 I'm located in Asia, where interestingly the Nurri is cheaper from a distributor, direct from ACS with tax is more expensive by 20 percent. Weird but true. Nurri where I'm from is 4.5k Euros including tax and shipping. I wanted to have a feel of the Nurri but the dealer mentioned they only have unopened boxes and no display units. It's a reputable dealer so I'm not getting scammed. ACS base would be 4.3k euros including shipping, but tax would be an additional 20 percent and I need to collect it from the airport. So overall roughly 20 percent higher.

Reputable dealers would have a machine for you to try out no? Would be tempted for Acs really, I still shine for the Vostok, home use or shop.

@"Jony"#p71939 They are one of the main suppliers for all coffee machines here. Not that I'm defending them, I haven't met a single coffee machine dealer in my country that's halfway decent for service. Had dealers refuse to fix a new Marzocco until my friend escalated to LM headquarters. Another dealer I called because my grinder had an alignment issue, they just pushed it down beyond zero, claimed it was fixed and wanted to charge me for fixing it. Another delivered a VA E1 Prima with a leg bent at 45 degrees like it's totally normal.

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71940 I would check manufacture dates and exactly what the nurri had fitted. Id also want to see it running. As a dealer of that kind if kit, they should be testing anyway prior to handing over to the retail customer. If not that tells you a story already and what a battle you will have should it go faulty. I would email Maria at ACS sales@mevsrl.net and ask if they are happy to ship to you and if they have any known issues shipping to your area, and what timescale there would be to ship parts etc if ever required. Im in the UK and parts from ACS arrive in 1 to 4 days which is great. I wish you the best of luck.

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 Please be aware that this forum is predominantly made up of acs owners so u r liable to get a much higher percentage of responses from acs owners. I am one of the very few nurri owners who are active on this forum and have owned my L type SA Lever for almost 2 years now. Prior to that, I owned a traditional dipper style lever machine for a long time and so I am familiar with how much more powerful in capabilities and in ease of use hybrid levers are compared to traditional levers, good though ghe latter are. The nurri and acs machines have similar abilities and both manufacturers are currently the only ones making hybrid levers that are available for sale. (The LM LEVA X and the kvdw spiritello are what i like to call hyper levers as they are machines in an entirely different class cost wise being much more expensive and requiring considerably more counter space. ) However the biggest difference between the nurri and the acs machines and which matter the most from a user and owner perspective IMHO is their very different user experiences. The nurri focuses on giving a hands on interface and experience and is minimalistic in appearance and controls. This means that apart from the pid, everything is controlled via the lever itself, 2 paddles and a knob that controls the preinfusion pressure. There are no timer or automation features at all and no touchscreens - there are just the pid and 2 analogue manometer dials. What this means is that if u want to be in c ontrol throughout the shot and extraction process, then the nurri is for you because it gives a lot of direct or fllexibility and control. However if u have to do a lot of catering and entertain large groups of people frequently for parties then the acs machines have timers with the ability to automatically cut off the shot at pre set pressure levels etc. How I like to describe analogically to describe this difference is that the nurri is to the acs machines like apple smartphones arr to Android smartphones or like apple laptops are to Microsoft os laptops. This analogy extends to their different aesthetic design appearance also. On your queries:- "1. Pressure changes can be done for Nurri while pulling a shot (not sure about ACS)" Yes correct for the nurri. "2. ACS has more auto features than the Nurri (manual shot termination and pre-infusion) - no preference" Yes that is correct but this is by design as I have mentioned above. '3. ACS has better steel (corrosion resistance)" I don't know what are the steels used currently in the newest iterations of the nurri leva. But I don't think this is a live factor especially for home machines that dont see the wear and tear commercial machines experience in cafes. This is particularly for the painted ones. Whatever the case I have never come across any owner complaining of rust issues in a nurri. "4. Nurri needs a physical electrical cutoff installed for the boiler at set temperature (bi-metal piece at the boiler) - can be retrofitted at low cost." I don't understand what you r referring to. I am not aware of anything that the nurri needs along those lines. "5. ACS has 3 single PIDs while Nurri has one PID with 3 outputs/inputs - I’m not sure about the pros/cons of this in terms of accuracy/reliability" It makes no difference operationally. The nurri pid has 3 independent channels that perform independently of each other.

You could email Nurri themselves for confirmation of the ASian dealer network. I am still surprised at your answer though. If you buy direct from ACS, they do not charge you the middle man profits, and in exchange you get it cheaper but have to deal direct with any issues that might arise. Through a dealer network, they make say 35% Let us say the base price of the units is both 3000 and ignore any import taxes as it is the same for both. Shipping will also be similar. ACS you pay 3000 Nurri, the dealer adds his mark up which includes warranty works of 35% making the 3000 cost to him, 4050. That is why to me, your numbers seem a little strange. i fully understand the need not to overpay as I would not want to either! AS to which machine is the better. How long is a piece of string? On a forum, all you will be told is the opinion of the various owners. I might be wrong but I can think of possibly 2 Nurri owners on here. I can think of a lot more ACS owners but that is partly to be expected. The question I would ask the existing ACS owners, is knowing what you know, would you do a straight swop for a Nurri?

depends how hands on you are, with acs it breaks you're inside the machine fixing it, with nurri i presume the dealer back up would sort it out, re the nurri just check on the wood handles as a user bought one and got god awful plastic things, also depending what machine you are coming from, be aware these are hand built machines, can and do go wrong, fit and finish isnt allways 100% after that pick the one you like the look of as they will both produce outstanding coffee, after all its the same group.

Wasn't that user promised wood handles once it arrives? The only worry I have is the finishing of the wood panels. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/aQK0i7S.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/aQK0i7S.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

Deciding Between Hybrid Levers

Cuprajake

dfk41 personally id buy neither now.

dfk41

AlbertLZJ I am friendly with our host @DavecUK Dave was instrumental in the Evo Leva project which was born out of the frustration of people being persuaded to buy another brand of lever machine that cost substantially more and offered a great deal less. In fact since the demise of Coffeetimeuk as a meaningful forum, you barely ever hear the Londinium brand being discussed anywhere. So the Evo Leva project brought a modern machine to the market place incorporating the 54mm group with some modern technology. I received one of the first machines to be dispatched, receiving it in June 2021.

I believe this date precedes the Nurri arrival onto the market place, so I actually had no choice. My Evo Leva does not have the wizardry of the latest itinerants but for me, that is a good thing. My memory is not so good and the thought of paddles and timers and auto shut offs scares me greatly!

So, to answer your question (and I accept but still do not understand your answer on pricing!) I would not swap my mark 1 Evo Leva for a Mark 2, let alone a Nurri!

AlbertLZJ

dfk41

Pricing is highly ridiculous where I am.

Mazzer Philos is almost 2k USD when I asked the distributor, however the Lelit Bianca is going for 2.5k USD. Heavily dependent on the dealer’s pricing for items.

Been lurking long enough to know you had an Orchestrale Nota, almost got one of those as well!

Dave is someone that I really appreciate as he gives a lot of design info that’s often overlooked. Why I didn’t buy CREM LFPP previously was also due to his review and the fact that it had no thermo switch on the boiler until he insisted, but only for those that were sold by Bella Barista.

AlbertLZJ

Adrianmsmith

You said something interesting.

The evo 2 uses solenoid dump, which means less maintenance. Does the Nurri Leva’s shot stop dump need to be lubricated often? If its something like an E61 activation lever then I would avoid that, I’m a lazy POS and it’s the only reason why moved away from E61 groups.

@chlorox

The football analogy drives it home. I don’t have brand loyalty, more towards reliability, engineering, and features. BUT supporting Liverpool?!

chlorox

AlbertLZJ
The nurri’s grouphead venting features is purely manual as in the valve is opened by the left paddle and only remains open as long as the left paddle is pulled. The valve closes when the left paddle is allowed to return to its usual position. There is no dirty water pulled in from the portafilter past the grouphead screen at any time.

People are almost always tribal once they really like something even when they think they are not. It’s a human thing so might as well acknowledge it! And what’s wrong with supporting Liverpool FC? If u come from Asia, you will no doubt be aware of the massive support certain English Premiership soccer clubs get from many Asian countries and the two biggest English clubs who get this suppry are Manchester United and Liverpool.

Cuprajake

They both use solenoid

Acs use pressure to activate

Nurri used mechanical switches

Don’t know if it’s still the case but the biggest difference no one ever picks up on or speaks about is this

The nurri uses or used the same type of switch used o

Cuprajake

the nurri uses the same activation switch as used on e61 levers, when depressed this turns the pump on,

however

the pump is running constantly the time the lever is pressed so you get what ever pressure its set to all the way through infusion till about 3 seconds after the lever is lifted,

the evo and londinium lr24 use pressure to hit a set target, this say 2 bar, is why the pump pulses dud dud dud

this may have changed on the nurri, i dont follow as closely as i used to,

this is the single biggest difference

AlbertLZJ

Cuprajake

That’s great info!

I saw Lance Hedrick modify the pressure of the pump while it was running, so that should give the same results right?

Also you mentioned you wouldn’t buy either of those levers now, why is that?

AlbertLZJ

Cuprajake

I just had the funny imagery of doing the pulsing manually on the Nurri, while making the dud dud dud soundeffects and the wife rolling her eyes in the background.

Adrianmsmith

AlbertLZJ

Have you had a definite price from Maria?

We do NOT want to know what it is, just asking. I’m assuming you are not trying to go through a dealer for the ACS.

The solenoid on the ACS is electric signal operated . (Jake has said about the Nurri, im not sure.)

Solenoid is Operated either by the system at a set pressure or time

Operated by the stop button on manual mode 1.

Manual can have the solenoid active or turned off . @dfk41

Would love this mode if his 6 numbers come up!!

I use the dump all the time even on manual. If mine do i will gift him one just to see!!

Also worth mentioning, there seems to be extremely little Syphon effect and coffee is not pulled through the dump system. Therefore back flushing period is something you can choose in days weeks or months!!

And another thing. Taste in the cup. I would assume the 1, 2 and N will be (nearly) indistinguishable. In that respect they’re all going to be decent, even if not Decent 🤭

chlorox

Adrianmsmith
Oh so the Peugeot was a used car? I understand if that is the case. Usually though in some other countries, the cars that are traded in are sold to used car dealers so the Nissan dealer wouldn’t be selling Peugeot or Honda cars for instance as that would be messing with their principals brand.

AlbertLZJ

Adrianmsmith

Yes I have a quote. You’re right that taste in the cup would be indistinguishable, so the deciding factors are

Reliability by design
Safety by design
Ease of maintenance
Frequency of maintenance
Thoughtfulness of design

Example for LMLM, backflushing is the only maintenance that is needed, providing that my water is relatively soft.

Drip tray wasn’t designed as an afterthought, drains well due to recessed drainage area. The only thing that irks me is the base of the machine can rust, so I had it removed and electroplated. I got the older version without home app so I don’t need to go to an app to change things which is great.

A minor gripe with the ACS vostok is the drip tray screw thread protruding up from the drip tray, so it won’t drain completely. It also has to be tilted to remove it. I’m sure the Nurri has some weird design choices too. My major gripe with the Nurri was the wood, it looked like someone took a hand saw to it, and didn’t even bother sanding it, good to know that’s been changed.

chlorox

Adrianmsmith
It’s different strokes for different folks. I for one have no interest in the acs machines’ features that the nurri doesn’t have because the reason why i want a home machines is because I want to control every phase of the shot. My fun comes from making the shot as nuch as it does fronm drinkintg the resulting espresso. So I have no need for timers and auto shot cut off features. I want to decide when to terminate the shot whereby the optimal tine may differ from shot to shot, not leave it to a preset time. I never need to make coffee for more than 5 or 6 people at a time so I don’t need any automated features. I have enough of computer screens at work as well so i want just analogue style hands on controls.

Of course another person’s needs and preferences may differ entirely from me and that’s fine.

Adrianmsmith

AlbertLZJ

Im not the most popular on here amongst my fellow ACS owners or @chlorox 🤭

As im mainly idle and looking for an easy life.

I like analogue at home (101 percent digital at work 😎) so thats one thing i agree with chlorox but we like different aspects of the implementation.

So my evo is fully plumbed and i change the everpure claris ultra cartridge annually way before its capacity is reached . Ive used the same sysyem for the ecm and all 3 ACS.

Plumbing in the drip tray is a game changer for us idle folk as well. I do clean it every week or 2.

Safety wise the ACS is first class im talking electrical and mechanical not purely about the “safety system”.

To be clear again as well, my modifications detailed on other threads are purely for my interest and need to find the answer to “what if”! When i go too far it will mean another email to Maria for parts!!

chlorox

AlbertLZJ
U can ask your nurri dealer to let u see the wood panels of the particular unit before u buy it ti make sure its finishing is up to your standards.

Adrianmsmith

chlorox And what’s wrong with supporting Liverpool FC? If u come from Asia, you will no doubt be aware of the massive support certain English Premiership soccer clubs get from many Asian countries and the two biggest English clubs who get this suppry are Manchester United and Liverpool

So i worked in Dubai for 4 years.

Taxi drivers refused to believe i was from England. All we had to talk about was the weather!! They love to talk about football and cricket. Well, sorry, i know nothing!!

Cuprajake

Acs also keep all the electrics or most behind a panel sheilded away from the water side

You can see inside the nurri on Tom’s vid

If mechanically minded you can work most of it out

It’s very tribal, I was passionate about the Evo Vs nurri debate, not because I owned one but I truly believe the acs is the better of the 2 machines from a mechanical point of view, the Evo 2 I bought was plague by problems, it broke with in the first 1hr of use , and took 2 weeks to get back running

Things I reported never got fixed and I saw examples of that also happening on machines that came after mine

So I’d now not recommend any

That said if you want a lever these two will make the best version of of, please note I’ve not used a kee van Der Western. Or the leva x but these are double and triple the price

For me personally the whole venting thing is a waste of time, the nurri dribbles about 5g of crud after you flush the Evo less, Evo safety system on mine was hindering it hitting 10.5bar, that’s why the flush lever started being used to pre charge the shot

For me the beauty of a lever, is that the picks are solid and knock out easy, this is from moving the cup.

There’s probably more I’ve forgotten

But I dont want to be dragged into this too deep as it just annoys me,

Buy which you can afford, like the look of and go from there

chlorox

Cuprajake
Whatrever one’s opinion on the technicals of internal set up, in the end the proof of the pie is in the pudding and nurri levers have been generally dependable and performing well despite being a new product just launched a little more than 2 years ago. While its features have not been changed, various intricacies have also been refined through various improvements over time.

On continued drips after the left paddle, there are still some drips but this is to be expected given the volume of water pushed through the grouphead by the lever, some of which is left below the grouphead screen. Because the valve that is manually opened by the left paddle does not suck out the water that is below the grouphead screen, this means that that there will be still some drips after the shot is terminated, though it iis typically not as much as 5g and it is not or not all consisting of “crud”. The fact that it doesn’t suck out all the water in the portafilter is a good thing because if it did every time the left paddle is pulled then the shot would be ended in such an event no matter when the left paddle is pulled during the shot. This is one of the powerful aspects of the nurri because there is a lot of flexibility in how u use it because for eg the left paddle can be used in the earlier phase of the shot momentarily to not end the shot but to modify the shot. A more minor benefit is also that there is much less chance of the internals of the machine being fouled by the coffee residue in the portafilter beng sucked into the grouphead past the grouphead screen.

On how nice it is to have a totally dry puck, I agree it is nice but it is nicer for me not to have to do the old switcheroo where u swap out the cup to allow the portafilter to drain fully. It is a cumbersome and inelegant way to overcome what is really a design defect in the original spring lever. To me, a dry puck is one of the least factors to consider because the beauty of a lever to me is the smooth taste of the shots that jr produces vs a pump machine. Of course, this is me and my own preference. Others may or will differ…

However I agree with you Jake 100% on your line “Buy which you can afford, like the look of and go from there” and I may have to borrow that phrase in the future to reuse again!

Cuprajake

It’s hard to reply to someone who is constantly editing their posts,

To the op there are millions of these threads where people bicker over Thier machine and it being the best

@chlorox some people like to know about the internals, and such.

Last I’m saying on this as it’s talked to death imo and always goes one way.

AlbertLZJ

After all the inputs, I’ve actually decided to get the ACS instead of Nurri, and now just deciding between Vostok and Leva 2 (have space for either), figuring out logistics, and the customizations. Last but not least is to get something nice for the wife before buying it so I don’t get murdered.

The main differences that were critical to me were

Build quality - frame of the ACS looks to be better built, with better materials and think it was @Adrianmsmith that said the internal build was better than the ECM Synchronika, that really swayed the decision, knowing the build quality of the Synchronika.
Shield separating electronics and boilers in case of leakage, and I saw the Nurri has vents facing the boiler.
Support from people here, Maria and ACS, yes Nurri has dealers but over here the support from dealers is terrible, so dealer support or not makes no difference to me.
Ability to add lever safety and flush lever. Also what looks like continuous improvement and development.

Things that actually worked against the ACS but I can live with (personal choices)

Nurri’s ability to bypass lever and pull a shot. Important for wifey but I’m still keeping the LMLM so she could use that.
That drip tray design of the Vostok.
Personally prefer the more mechanical operation of the Nurri, but I can live with it as the build quality is better on the ACS.

Thanks to all of you for helping me with all the inputs. It is really appreciated.

Adrianmsmith

AlbertLZJ Nurri’s ability to bypass lever and pull a shot. Important for wifey but I’m still keeping the LMLM so she could use that.

Hey, glad you are near to a decision.

Could you expand on the above “issue” .

Im not sure what you mean so can’t comment if the evo2 can do the same. It is very versatile.

Let us see what you need it to do please ….

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