For ages and ages, but not very recently, I've been thinking about upgrading our Gaggia Classic. But something else always spent the money before I did, you know holidays, double glazing that sort of thing. That was okay because the Classic was still working and so it was just research. Now, oh bugger, the Classic has stopped working - it's basically blocked up, I've been too lazy descaling!!! So a new machine is needed and I'll start from fresh with bottled water and things will run differently, oh yes they will. But what to look at? We don't drink that much coffee, mostly one americano a day. We've not bothered with espressos or lattes, just the occasional cappuccino, because the Classic wasn't delivering the best brew. So, something with a PID and the ability to produce a good espresso if we wanted. (FYI we've a Eureka grinder already) I had wondered about the Profitec 300 ages ago, but I think it's been discontinued as it's not on Belle Barista, although other Profitecs are. Something fairly straightforward to use and maintain, as my 'roadway' is paved with good intentions. Some ideas to research please. :)

New or used? New options: E61 group with dual boiler you could stretch the budget a little and get an ACS Minima. E61 HX - Lelit Mara X Dual boiler, not E61 - Lelit Elizabeth I quite like the look of the ECM Mechanika Max, seems a very clever HX machine, a little over budget though. Used your options come down to whatever people are selling on the forum/ebay. But you could get something very nice for £1500.

Everyone will tell you what machine they own….and I am no different, but, there is a but! Over the 23 years I have been into coffee, I have owned countless machines. Big ones, small ones, mainly dual boilers, levers, E61, non E61…..the list is embarrassing. Here is the but. After 4 years my Evo Leva malfunctioned. Being a luddite I decided to buy something new. I drew up a list of wants. Dual boiler, small foot print, uncomplicated so definitely no profiling, definitely not an E61 (too much maintenance of the group for me), something I could keep. I decided that a Lelit Elizabeth ticked all of my boxes, so without any further thought I bought one (well within your budget}. https://bellabarista.co.uk/collections/dual-boiler/products/lelit-elizabeth-pl92t-v3?_pos=2&_fid=33022de0e&_ss=c Dave's review https://sway.cloud.microsoft/YUuIpMmQlYAFkxIO

I’d go Lelit Elizabeth. Hard to beat the value for money and no faffing around with an E61.

Bit worried that the Lizzie might be a bit unreliable? Ages ago I did mod the Classic with a new steam wand but nowadays I can't be that enthusiastic. So looking for new and reliable. I wondered about (stretching to) the Profitec Move or the Pro 400 or Jump. And I've already forgotten where and what I read about Belle Barista telling someone one of the Profitecs was a bit unreliable… I'll make a list and take some time. Single boilers, HX or double, E61 or ring…I just don't know. I think that mostly I worry about spending a lot of cash and having something that 'breaks down'. :)

Then buy new from Bellabarista, warranty etc, also most machines are easy to work on, especially e61 from my experience of Fracino and ACS. Should be possible to maintain a machine yourself for years.

> @"smallblueplanet"#p80559 Bit worried that the Lizzie might be a bit unreliable? Why? They have been out 5 years now. There are plenty of owners on here. Every machine needs maintenance of some sort. With the change left from your budget buy a Waterdrop K19 Reverse Osmosis countertop machine and then your water issues are sorted https://www.waterdropfilter.co.uk/collections/portable-reverse-osmosis/products/instant-hot-water-reverse-osmosis-system-wd-k19-h Never been cheaper…..the price does fluctuate weekly

There’s also the Silvia Pro. I’ve not used one but I had a Silvia and it was pretty rock solid. One of the more reliable machines I’ve had. The Lelit’s are a little light to the touch in parts but they’re well put together. As above, you’re probably going to need to change the odd valve and tighten the odd joint on whichever machine. It’s really just a case of ‘when’ rather than ‘if’.

c.£1500 - what espresso machine to buy?

Dusk

When you make an americano, do you top up with water from the kettle? I’m just wondering whether a dual boiler is even worth the extra cost/hassle if you rarely have milk drinks. Maybe a Profitec Go would do the job, it’s a bit like a better built Classic bit with a PID as standard.

smallblueplanet

Dusk Yeah just use the kettle for hot water. I’ve looked at the Go and ‘wondered’. I’m at that ‘upgrade’ stage how high do I want to jump, what will I prioritise? I’m a sucker for good looks! I like technology as long as it helps. I can’t see us buying another espresso machine if this next one is reliable, we’ve had the Classic for about 20 years! :D

dfk41

The Elizabeth produces hot water without the steam boiler being on

Adrianmsmith

from what I read above id point you @smallblueplanet towards an Elizabeth. you can turn the steam boiler off when required and still make americano without a kettle. seems like it was made for what you are looking for.

a lot of good comments on reddit and on that other coffee forum. :-) (as well as David who points you to the information you need, above without suggesting what you should do)

i dont own one and am still happy with my leva so im kind of impartial here, but i do read a lot and try and filter out the bull!!

I 100% would never go back to an e61. yes they are easy to work on BUT yes they need a lot of TLC, stripping and greasing.

Its difficult to get good advice from places like Bella or any dealer for that matter. they will not actually tell any lies but they all have margins and targets. Just my opinion.

smallblueplanet

Adrianmsmith I think you may be going in the right direction, but like with shoes I have to try on every pair first. :)

Adrianmsmith

smallblueplanet just dont go buying every pair 🥴🤭 it gets expensive!!

smallblueplanet

Adrianmsmith

Edit can’t find the emojis - Looking for ‘deep irony/as if’ emoji! :D

dfk41

smallblueplanet We ran a small survey a couple of weeks ago asking people to vote as to which machine they owned. I deleted the file but have split the results up into two screenshots.

Cuprajake

Elizabeth is best of your budget

Splash the cash and get a bianca if you want rotary

Those would be the best two options at that budget

John_Yossarian

I would suggest the ACS Minima. It is E61 group and it isn’t as it doesn’t need any maintenance, it has solenoid valve. If I was out for a new machine that would have been my choice. Elizabeth is a solid choice too, just a smaller steam boiler, still capable. Whatever choice you make you will better off compared to the Classic.

smallblueplanet

John_Yossarian I would suggest the ACS Minima.

They look a bit weird, I think I’d need to see one first. :)

Do some E61 machines not require as much maintenance then, I’d sort of forgotten there was a difference in upkeep? I might stick with the rings, just seen a video on here of the Minima and it was very loud.

dfk41

smallblueplanet The E61 group often has a lever to operate the shot. When you backflush the lube gets stripped off meaning every now and then you need to take the cam out and apply lube. Some machines use a button linked to a solenoid as opposed to a lever and this arrangement does away with the need to lube. The Minima is capable but looks odd and boy it is noisy……in fairness most vibe pump machines are…..perhaps our host can chip in and explain why the Elizabeth is better that most, or and I would recommend this, read Dave’s review! He does these for free and his Elizabeth review is the most comprehensive one out there. I guess a large part of your decision making process, is who or what to believe. I tend to listen to those that know their onions! Unfortunately with coffee gear, a large part of any decision is the wife coupled with looks rather than its function!

Tal

Traditional e61 are operated by a lever/cam that open and close the valves, whereas the ACS Minima uses a solenoid valve and switch instead.

So there isn’t the e61 maintenance to deal with, which consists of disassembly and lubricating the cam/valves etc after a chemical backflush.

smallblueplanet

OMG! I’ve found the Lance Hedrick YT vids! Errr… :D

Anyway he really rates the Elizabeth, in his $1-2200 mid-range it’s the only (realistic) one to get an A. So why doesn’t everyone own one? What are it;s drawbacks?

Clodius

@smallblueplanet everyone is saying Lelit Elizabeth, but making americanos using water from the kettle is a bit of an overkill. I would take it down a notch to Lelit Victoria, still the premium line, but the single boiler version of Elizabeth. The rest you can use for some accessories if you’re interested in things like that.

smallblueplanet

Clodius Yeah, that was crossing my mind. We need a new car soon too (EV), and another holiday!…I’m trying to balance what I’d like/want, with what we need and would be happy with. Which is why we stuck with the Classic for so long, until it has died!

dfk41

Clodius @smallblueplanet Just for clarity, the Elizabeth is a dual boiler, but…….you can leave the steam boiler switched off and pull hot water to top up your Americano though the hot water tap……it is all covered in the review! No need for a kettle. I drink 3 Americno’s a day drawing hot water this way

Cuprajake

if i could buy a dual boiler i wouldnt be considering a single boiler machine,

Clodius

@Cuprajake it’s personal, everyone attributes a different value to the objects. Would you buy a Mercedes AMG just to go shopping?

Adrianmsmith

Clodius if i won the lottery, certainly.

Cuprajake

Clodius

ok,

smallblueplanet

dfk41

I’m just watching/listening to Hedrick’s review of the Elizabeth. It’s quite big (edit: just checked the size, must be the camera angles, it’s not that big), not very pretty but mostly seems quite complicated. I’m not sure we can be bothered with all that ‘stuff’ just for a nice coffee. :) I really just fancied a machine with a shot counter/ adjustable PID and OPV and better quality brew/steam than the Classic (not that difficult atm!).

Dunno, I’d get a Merc to go shopping, if I won the lottery…well no it’d be a Porsche Cayenne EV :D