My Heat pump Story -Davec

smallblueplanet

There are systems that do both, I think our Daikin model could but the conditions of the govt BUS grant don’t allow for it, so ours is heat only. Edit: no idea how that works tbh.

dfk41

I also have air con fitted. That allows for both heating and cooling. We do not use the cooling side that often but when we do it is invaluable. We only have a bungalow with 4 units fitted. When it is cooler we often have the hall unit on most of the day and it blows air into the lounge from the hall. The big unit in the open plan lounge diner can be oppressively hot (yes I know you can set the desired output) so just the trickle the hall produces is enough.

The installation being a bungalow was a doddle but I can imagine it being a PITA for a house with 2 or more floors. That said, you can elect for say a unit in just your lounge or the room you spend the most time in, then it would be a doddle

HarveyMushman

dfk41

How long have you had it installed and have you had any problems with the system?

I’m certainly considering it as the past couple of Summers have become almost unbearably hot indoors despite the efforts of the ‘windows open at night, blinds closed during the day’ approach.

I work from home quite often now since Covid and spending all day in a sweltering home office with the blinds closed while it’s 36 degrees outside isn’t much fun so some sort of home-wide AC would be ideal even if it’s only in use for a couple of months each year.

dfk41

HarveyMushman How long have you had it installed and have you had any problems with the system?

It was installed in May 2023. The chap recommended Mitsubishi equipment. We had 3 quotes and they varied wildly. Initially the idea was one unit in one room and the first firm back wanted £2750. The chap who did the actual installation quoted £1350. This led us to re-think and we ended up with a 10kw unit outside feeding 4 indoor units. The largest is a 5kw, then a 3.5, then a 2 then a 1.5. They work via remote control or from an app. The first firm to quote said we had to sign an annual service contract. The installer said absolute nonsense, no maintenance needed! I suppose if the unit had been under a tree it may have been relevant. You do end up with a big lump of an outdoor unit though.

HarveyMushman

Brilliant, thanks.

We’ve considered portable temporary units but given the good ones all need to be vented through a window or similar it would make sense to have a more permanent solution.

DavecUK

HarveyMushman Brilliant, thanks.

We’ve considered portable temporary units but given the good ones all need to be vented through a window or similar it would make sense to have a more permanent solution.

I have had an aircon unit fitted in the loft room for 13 years now…It’s an inverter system and can be used to heat or cool. It’s a pretty large loft room and it gets oppressive on warm summer nights. So shut the door, unit on and in 15m without using the “powerful setting” for quick cool down, it’s nice and cool. Litrerally maintains it for approx 200/300W usage per hour.

I can of course run Dex on my Samsung and work up there if the office gets too hot. They require minimal maintenance, just clear any leaves and crap and clean the case each year. The one thing I may do next year is put new insulation of the flow and return pipes as it eventually deteriorates.

AlbertR

HarveyMushman We’ve considered portable temporary units but given the good ones all need to be vented through a window or similar it would make sense to have a more permanent solution.

I would strongly advise against using a portable air conditioning system. The poor performance of these devices is only surpassed by the immense electricity costs…

From the beginning of the 1980s, I had a permanently installed split system for about 10 years to cool my office, a flat I have rented for my IT business. This was mainly necessary because there I was working with department computers, but also the summer temperatures in Binningen (Switzerland), often were quite high. The installation of the AC was absolutely no big deal.

Living in an area where you do not need AC is obviously prefererable. This is one of the reasons we picked for our retirement a location at an elevation of 900m. After all, air conditioning contributes to global warming.

HarveyMushman

DavecUK

This sounds really great, many thanks for the info. Very reassuring you’ve had it a good while and minimal maintenance. We typically need to clear the gutters each year anyway so not a big deal to keep an AC system clean also.

I think a one or two room solution for just the upstairs might actually work quite well for us.

DavecUK

AlbertR I would strongly advise against using a portable air conditioning system. The poor performance of these devices is only surpassed by the immense electricity costs…

I used to have one vented through a window, they are absolutely useless.

Performance is poor
very noisy
use lots of electricity
They work by sending warm air outside….which drops the pressure in the room and warm air comes back in…making them completely ineffective for room cooling

The best you will get is spot cooling, which you could achieve far more cheaply with a fan. Too cool a room cheaply and effectively you need a “split system”. I have a Fujitsu unit in my loft (which can get incredibly hot sometimes.

Shut the door, turn on the unit, it’s cool within 15 minutes and uses around 200W to keep the room cool. Once I am ready to go to sleep I usually turn it off, unless it’s a particularly warm night. The trick is to not set them to make the room cold, like American aircon or some hotels, I set mine to around 21C….then they don’t cycle much and use very little power.

Cuprajake

we used to have a pov vent in the old house bringing in filtered air from outside,

JahLaza

@DavecUK interested to hear you went for this. I thought you didn’t rate heat pumps? I vaguely remember you saying somewhere on here they weren’t efficient and the gov was pushing them too much? Doesn’t matter anyway but I’m delighted to see a thread on it here. I moved into a brand new A rated house last November with a Daiken air to water heat pump. I wasn’t a fan of this beforehand (through ignorance really!) since moving in I think it would be very difficult to go back. I love it, constant temperature, you don’t have to touch or think about anything, and if you do, you just adjust the target temperature with a tweak. Constant tank of hot water, very very efficient with minimal bills, I do love it! Question for you though - with an older house, did you get your external walls pumped/wrapped with insulation? And I’m guessing your windows and attic have good insulation properties. I thought this system would not work unless your total house insulation was above a minimum level. Reason I ask is that a friend of mine is currently renovating a 20 year old house, is so impressed with my system he is thinking of getting it for his house but I warned him of this concern. I’m not an expert on it but love this set up!

DavecUK

JahLaza My house was built in 1995 with wall insulation and yes the loft extension is well insulated. I have Microbore, but luckly 10mm and all the microbore rads heated before the longer run 13 mm piped ones, so that’s good news.

I didn’t like the earlier crop of heat pumps, but the R290s are a lot more efficient, with what they proposed for the pipe routing there was minimal to no disruption and all the equipment was top notch…the price made it a no brainer for everything I got. I was also put off in initial enquries over the years of our way or the highway, lack of flexibility and sky high pricing.

I would have liked it even better if they would allow R717 to be used (although over 100 years old in use), it’s a superior performing refrigerant to anything we have or have had. Smaller units, more efficiency, better temperature range etc…

smallblueplanet

JahLaza Question for you though - with an older house, did you get your external walls pumped/wrapped with insulation? And I’m guessing your windows and attic have good insulation properties. I thought this system would not work unless your total house insulation was above a minimum level. Reason I ask is that a friend of mine is currently renovating a 20 year old house, is so impressed with my system he is thinking of getting it for his house but I warned him of this concern.

We had our Daikin Altherma 3 installed last November in our 1950s semi. It has DG and loft insulation, oh and an open fire (shhhh lol) and it was a similar costing to our old oil boiler over winter. They work but obviously the better your insulation the better the efficiency.

JahLaza

DavecUK great, I’m sure you will love it too. It’s R32 in use in mine I think, I never checked the pump rating actually I must do in the coming days. In my house, the oven or hob actually heat the house too, it’s so well insulated. Only thing is, everything in my house runs on electricity, I was thinking of getting a camping stove for when the power goes but that hasn’t happened yet!

Teaboy

I may be a cynic but will the cheap electricity rates be around for ever, imagine if everyone had heat pumps and electric cars?

DavecUK

Teaboy I may be a cynic but will the cheap electricity rates be around for ever, imagine if everyone had heat pumps and electric cars?

They may not be but as sure as eggs is eggs, gas prices will be going up, I say this for a few reasons:

A quote from the lords, if we want people to have heat pumps we will have to force people to install them
there is a disparity in gas vs electric prices that can and will be exploited

Thence the ratio of gas per kW vs electric will reduce over time. I also got on the 15p type of use tariff from Ovo, have to wait 24 hours for it to be set up…this will mean about a 40% saving vs my old gas boiler.

dfk41

DavecUK Dave, you understand market forces and capitalism. You are dreaming if you think the efficiencies your heat pump set up has will carry forward into the future. Once they have you by the balls, they will squeeze and squeeze……you do not design things with only one possible outcome. If electric runs into problems and gas has effectively been sidelined, what is plan B?

There is a reason why I have gas central heating, a flueless gas fire and air con……

smallblueplanet

dfk41

https://www.nesta.org.uk/project/finding-ways-to-deliver-cheaper-electricity-by-rebalancing-levies/

"Could shifting policy levies make electricity cheaper for UK households?

We are examining how different approaches to rebalancing levies on electricity and gas would affect the energy bills of different UK households. These policy costs fund a range of environmental and social schemes. Currently, they are mostly added to electricity bills, which makes electricity too expensive compared to gas. Expensive electricity slows down the transition to low-carbon heat, disproportionately affects fuel-poor households with electrical heating, and traps millions of households into relying on gas for longer. This project, launched in August 2024, quantifies the impact of shifting policy levies on how energy costs are distributed across households and looks at the future of electricity and gas bills in the context of the clean heat transition…"

dfk41

I could not think of the correct phrase to use, but I read it this morning…..dynamic pricing. Once they have you, this is what will happen

Dynamic pricing is a pricing strategy where businesses adjust their prices in real-time based on market conditions, demand, and other factors. It’s also known as surge pricing, demand pricing, or time-based pricing. This flexible approach allows companies to optimize revenue by charging more when demand is high and potentially lowering prices when demand is low.

LMSC

dfk41 Dynamic pricing

We need to include “loyal” and those who can’t anywhere customers - like insurance premiums 😁

dfk41

smallblueplanet "Could shifting policy levies make electricity cheaper for UK households?

Never in a month of Saturday and Sundays! That piece was not written by a capitalist People can write alternate views as much as they like but anyone who works in retail knows that you make hay whilst the sun shines. Every April when old potatoes run out, the fish and chip shops have to switch to new potatoes which for some reason cost more so the price of chips goes up, every year. Come late September when the fish and chip shops switch back to old potatoes does the price of chips come down……answers on a postcard

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