Always start the day with a pour over - V60 in the main but also Chemex, Clever and occasionally Sowden. Ritual is always the same - porcelain mug to allow heat to leech away more quickly but find I still have to wait until the coffee has cooled sufficiently. But here’s the thing - how cool should it be? Obviously, it’s down to personal preference but drinking some Chinese Gui Ben this morning, was struck by how much the coffee changed within a very few degrees gradually becoming less thin (insipid) and developing more mouthfeel. I always watch for the tell tale signs of an oil film developing on the surface at which point, for me, the coffee is drinkable but not at its best. What’s your ritual?

Since getting the Evo, the first coffee is always off her; either a short black or with milk. My pour over is mostly Clever, which I love the routine. Paper filter, SwissGold, 225g hot water first - straight from Osmio Zero and add 20g fine espresso grind and brew for 30 mins. I wrap the clever to retain heat. It’s only warmer after 30 mins. I do micro wave 15s before drinking as black. Right now, I am brewing Kenyan Mikari. The Aero Press and the Indian filter are not in use very much.

Re-watched James Hoffmann’s V60 routine - two pours - 60/40%. Had been using a recipe from a championship winner using four pours. Switching to the two pour 60/40% ratio produced really different outcomes - much preferring the Hoffmann recipe at the moment which goes to show how much you can vary the end result by altering the pours and amounts you put in during brewing.

Systemic I have watched a lot of his videos. Could you link that V60 video please ? I don’t have a V60. Not keen to invest on a gooseneck kettle only for this as the Osmio Zero is doing all the hot-water duty. 😊

Systemic Thanks to your morning post, I have ordered a plastic V60 02 for 6 quids from amazon with some 02 papers. I am going to see if I can fill directly from Osmio! Should be interesting. 😊

LMSC I have watched a lot of his videos. Could you link that V60 video please ? This is the video link:

I go through phases with my pour over kit - am in a pro V60 at the moment. Follow Hoffmann’s directions and you won’t go wrong. But let the coffee cool to get the best out of it flavour-wise.

Dunno if there’s a ;should;, but I like to start drinking around 52degC. You can’t taste properly until it’s not too hot anyway. Same sort of thing with wine and beer - they need to come up to >10degC for fuller flavours.

Agree - there is no ‘should’. With you that temps in range of 50-55c is a good place to be to get the full range of flavours from the bean.

I will give it a go with Hoffman’s method in a couple of days!

Got the plastic v60 02 from Amazon. Tried @MWJB ’s method, that too without gooseneck kettle (😂), a direct pour from Osmio Zero. The controlled pour didn’t go well, obviously. Hoffman’s method is fit for a direct pour from the Osmio Zero. It was Kenyan Mikari, as I know how it comes out on Clever. Anyways, 3.7 rotations on Jx Pro, 13.6g, ~240g of water in total and 194.5g on the cup after 6 mins and 20s. The brew time was almost double than normal. 60g bloom, 1:30 mins wait, 60g in a circle, 2mins wait (because I had to switch the pour over method), 20g in a circle every 30s and the final pour at the centre. Despite the lack of gooseneck kettle disaster, the coffee was really delicious. Balanced and sweet. It was neither sour nor bitter. The flavour was good and I had peachy necktarine fruity notes. I wonder what the EY would have been! Having exclusively brewed Clever (apart from Indian filter), the cup was really comparable. I normally steep for 30 mins, grind at the lower end of espresso range for clever and 20g:225g water. The difference was the clever cup was stronger, considering the dosage. If I were to keep all variables except the brew time the same, I doubt I can pick clever vs v60 apart. Hoffman method later this afternoon. Espresso will be for the evening ! Thx Mark and Patrick for the V60!

Pour over and brewed drinking temperature

Systemic

LMSC I wonder what the EY would have been!

Always go by how it tastes which you nailed. My refractometer is gather dust in the drawer - haven’t used it in quite a while. You’ve spurred me on to checking my next V60. With Chemex, I always aimed for 20%-21% EY which, for me, was a good balance between getting tasting notes and having a decent mouthfeel.

LMSC

Systemic Thank you! Good advice. Let’s know what reading did you get please. Btw, what’s your typical dosage / ratio for V60?

Systemic

LMSC Systemic Thank you! Good advice. Let’s know what reading did you get please. Btw, what’s your typical dosage / ratio for V60?

Dusted off my refractometer to check out this morning’s V60. 31grms into 500grms of water. 60grm bloom for 30secs with swirling. Then two pours - 240grms in until 1min 45secs reached, then the remainder to conclude the pours at 2mins 15secs following Hoffmanns’ recipe. Checked the temp during brewing. Water was set to 98c on the kettle. Temp in the puck during bloom was low 80s. Temp increased to 92c-93c after first pour and remained around same temp for remainder of brewing.

Refracting the coffee revealed an EY of 21% which is ball park spot on. Perfect balance of tasting notes and mouthfeel.

Systemic

30-32grms to 500grms of water at 98c (I drink lighter roasts so the higher the brew water temp the better). That said, it’s a revelation checking the temp during pours - in the high 80s during bloom and around 91c during draw down and that’s with water in at 98c.

LMSC

Hoffman’s method after lunch:

Got the normal kettle out, drew water from Osmio, poured straight off boil.

What a difference to the cup between Mark’s and Hoffman’s! This may be biased as I poured 226g for the Hoffman’s vs 240g for Mark’s; 3.7 rotations on JX, 13.6g:226.3g water in and 193.7g out. The output is comparable. Total brew time including the draw down was 3 mins and 48s.

The cup was clean, stronger than in the noon, more fruity acidity and a little sour! The sourness is what surprised me. Still liked the coffee. Pending a repeat of two methods keeping all constant, at this juncture, I prefer Mark’s. I will see where does the grind adjustments to Hoffman’s take me. 😊

Pompeyexile

Having just got my V60 I am really interested in your findings LMSC. But I will have to wait until my Niche arrives before I can get all technical loik. I still really enjoy the coffee I get from my old friend the Clever Dripper, but who knows where the new infinitely adjustable grinder will take me?

LMSC

Pompeyexile Sure. I will post where ever this takes me. Thx.

We have some brew Gods here. Please have a look at other brew threads. Mark @MWJB has recently published his brew excel logs.

LMSC

V60 this morning for self and latte for my wife.

For V60, it’s again @MWJB ’s method; 17.9g Kenyan Mikari; a tad finer at 3.65 JX pro turns than 3.7 yesterday; 300.3g hot water from kettle; 30g in circle of every 30s; the last pour at the centre; got 253.2g into the cup; and, the total brew time lasted 6:03mins.

Another lovely cup like yesterday. Sweet fruity acidity notes for me. It’s difficult to believe I was drinking Kenyan Mikari. The fruity acidic notes are strikingly different between pour over and espresso. It’s always at an elevated level in espresso.

Perhaps, a tiny hint of sourness- bitterness kicked in than yesterday. I may go back to 3.7 turns.

LMSC

Systemic That’s a great score! Well done!

Is there a pause in time between the second and the third pour in Hoffman method ? I am not sure if there is

Systemic

Recall Hoffmann saying the first and second pours more or less merge into each other - 240grms added from 00:30secs to 1min 45secs and the remaining 200grms over the next 30secs completing the pours by 2mins 15secs. The aim, ideally, is to keep the amount of water in the V60 constant during second pour which is grind dependent, i.e. if the grind is too coarse water will flow through too quickly and too slowing if the grind is too fine.

LMSC

Rave’s sugarcane decaf - Columbian Villamaria.

They said it is light - medium light roast. Sorry for the hazzy photo. It’s darker than the appearance on the photo. It is definitely a medium dark to me. I will have to be very generous to call it medium. It is certainly not medium light, let alone light, by any stretch of imagination. This is what disappoints me.

Anyway. it is an excellent coffee from V60 using Hofffman’s method. Like Kenyan, it leaves a very nice sweet after taste, which I love it. It gave me a sweet lemony passion fruit notes. I can’t tell if I also had pineapple notes. The after taste was chocolate sweet finish.

3.7 JX turns, 17.9g: 300g water, 257.7g into the cup. The bloom lasted 34s with 37.3g water, ~142.6g water from 34s-1:35mins, waited for 10s, 120g water from 1:45-2:15 mins. The full drawdown finished until 4:55s.

I will also make a cup with @MWJB’s keeping all the same along with Hoffman’s tomorrow and compare. I doubt they will be different.

MWJB

LMSC

LMSC I will also make a cup with @MWJB’s keeping all the same along with Hoffman’s tomorrow and compare. I doubt they will be different.

I suspect they might be, my regime is a much slower pour rate, designed for a coarser grind.

Be interesting to see what you get.

LMSC

MWJB The JX Pro pour over range is 3.4 to 3.8 turns from burrs touching. My grind is at the upper end of the pour over setting for both methods. It’s probably on a little weaker side of extraction but perfect to drink without any feeling of “oh it is a little stronger for me!” 😀

I am thinking if that’s the sweet spot. Haven’t tried grinding finer except one pour over, which I found it a tad sour-bitter. Tbh, I haven’t seriously tried grinding finer. I will do for sure.

I will however post the comparison result tomorrow.

MWJB I suspect they might be,

Btw, why do you think there might be please? I am thinking you would be expecting a relatively stronger cup using Hoffman’s, given everything is same and the nature of the pour / steep extracting a little more than yours ?

MWJB

LMSC Humans are not good at determining the strength of coffee, it’s more useful to go by sourness, siltyness & smokey bitterness (if present). Any brew ratio of around 60g/L has a tolerance of about +/-0.15%TDS anyway.

At a given ratio & grind, the slower you pour, the higher the extraction. You’re pouring at around 3g/s, my regime is closer to 1g/s, though there is some dead time with dry bed in my regime.

When I compared Hoffmann’s regime with my 1.65g/s pour regime, his didn’t extract any more than that.

LMSC

MWJB

All parameters are same

13.6g, 226g water. 3.7 Jx turns
Took boiling water from Osmio Zero on a long-neck 304 stainless steel water can, boiled off the Hob, and poured.
Between pours for both methods, kept the water can on the Hob at Sim to keep it warmer.
As usual, Kenyan Mikari

Hoffman :

27.5g bloom for 30s, 108g in 30s-1:45 mins, 90g in 1:45-2:15 mins
4:00 total time inc drawdown and 187g was the liquid
Excellent cup. Sweet and nice fruity acidity. Not bitter and perhaps a tiny / fraction of sour note just before after taste. I will probably rate this cup at 8 out of 9.

Mark

30g every 30s, each pour in circles lasting 15-20s, the final pour at the centre
4:41 mins in total after the draw down and 187.5g was the liquid
Excellent cup, very smooth, balanced, sweet, no bitterness and not sour. Very nice fruity notes. I would give 8.5 out of 9.

Comparison

Hoffman’s had relatively elevated fruity notes with a tiny sourness than Mark’s. The sourness (nit-picking) was very mild and felt it is ok as the cup was enjoyable.
I don’t think one can pick these two apart in blind tasting.
Although, I will continue improving the Hoffman method by grind adjustments, personally, I prefer Mark’s for a very clean outcome. 😊

Edit :

What I like is a tiny bit of after-taste sweetness, which lasts for a while.

DavecUK

LMSC IMHO, I think Mark knows a lot about brewing, probably more than Hoffman

LMSC

DavecUK Agree.

To be fair, Hoffman’s gets a very good cup but a tad stronger. But, Mark’s straightaway gave a cleaner and a smoother cup for sure, which is my preference. It will be interesting to see where does finer grinds would take me.

I think we are going to have to make Hoffman’s and Mark’s side by side and throw a blind-tasting challenge to @MWJB! To ensure there isn’t inconsistency, we can let him brew both side by side, ask him to leave the room and we can swap the cups to facilitate blind tasting ! 😁

LMSC

Went to my office in London after almost 2 years yesterday. It was weird but great seeing some familiar faces.

Brewed Kenyan Mikari for travel. The brew — @MWJB’s method was for 30g:500g:423.3g liquid:10:24 mins in total. Tightened the grind by 4 micro clicks to 3.6 turns instead of 3.7 turns. The cup was good, but had a noticeable lemon sour bitter after taste. It wasn’t an unpleasant after taste. I however would score this at 7 out of 9 than the previous 8.5/9.

I don’t thing a taking a half-step back is going to remove the lemon sour bitter after taste. However, I might still see what happens as it is going to be just one additional brew.

I know the the first brew setting at 3.7 turns on JX pro is the sweet spot.

It’s would just be 3 brews to find the sweet spot. 😊

LMSC

@Systemic Where do you buy your light and medium light roasts please?

It’s more of a lotto in my case as most of the roasters descriptions of their roast often fall short. Crankhouse is one exception. They never miss the beat.

Haven’t tried Foundry yet. I will get some bags as recommended by @MediumRoastSteam

Systemic

LMSC Where do you buy your light and medium light roasts please?

Origin, Horsham, Triple Co, Long & Short, North Star are some I use quite regularly. I usually buy in kilos to bring the cost down then vacuum pack in 250grm bags.

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