It seems that Lelit has made a few changes with the updated Mara X (some a bit confusing), so I thought it might be useful for potential and current owners to list the differences we know about, and maybe add more if we find them in the future. I am not sure what the cut-off date between V1 and V2, but it seems the V2 is from late 2021 (maybe around September? This is still to be confirmed). 1\. **Lelit’s Logo**. The new machines have a black printed logo instead of the classic red logo which sits proud. This is just aesthetics, and if anything seems like Lelit is cutting costs with the printed logo. In any case, it’s insignificant. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/8axaSpv.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/8axaSpv.png[/IMG][/URL] 2\. **OPV discharge.** The original version had the OPV discharge water routed to the drip tray. Many owners moded their machines to re-route the OPV discharge to the pump. The new version comes from the factory with the OPV discharging to the pump (A V2 machine is the same as a moded V1). Anyone who has the original version that still vents water to the drip dray can easily rearrange the tubes so that it will be the same as the newer machines. [Instructions on how to do that can be found here.](https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/142-lelit-mara-x-opv-mod-improved-updated-version-2022) 3\. [Edited following @"DavecUK"#1 comments below:] **New Xcoffee mode (Coffee priority with no steam boost) replaces Steam Priority mode:** **V1** has a Coffee Priority mode (position 1 on the switch on the right side of the machine) and a Steam Priority mode (Position 0 on the switch). In Coffee Priority mode the machines keeps the set temperature for brewing, and requires a Steam Boost to bring the temp up for steaming pressure. In Steam priority mode the machine behaves like a classic HX - it keeps a steady temperature for steaming milk and requires cooling flushes to bring the temp down for brewing. **V2** has an Xmode steam (position 1) and Xmode coffee (position 0). Xmode steam is similar to Coffee Priority mode in V1: The machine keeps the set temperature for brewing, and uses a Steam Boost to bring it up to steaming pressure. (targets may be a bit different, see below, but the general idea is the same). This mode is for making milk-steamed espresso drinks. Xmode Coffee, however, is new. It is essentially the same as Coffee Priority/Xmode sream but **without the steam boost**. It is meant for making espresso drinks when no steaming is needed. The advantage is that temperature stability is even better for brewing (like a single boiler machine with PID). It also enables making back to back shots without worrying that Steam Boost will make the temperature too high for brewing (requiring wait time/cooling flush to bring the temp down). (note that the names of the new modes on V2 may be a bit confusing, because the Coffee Priority mode from V1 is now called Xmode steam, and the new mode is called Xmode coffee). [URL=https://i.imgur.com/Nkki1vZ.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Nkki1vZ.png[/IMG][/URL] 4\. **Software updates.** This is trickier to compare, and more information is needed. In Coffee Priority mode, Mara X is known to cleverly juggle between keeping a steady set temperature in the group for brewing (without needing a cooling flush), to having enough steam power for frothing milk. It does that by starting a Steam Boost once the machine is used (lifting the lever or purging steam or water). The new version seems to have a different set of instructions in the firmware to achieve that, but it is yet to be clear what these changes exactly are and how they effect the use of the machine. [Edited following DaveC's comments below]: Steem Boost in the Xmode steam might be a little longer than in V1, to give a bit more steam power. More information about the tweaks in the software and potential option to upgrade the V1 to V2 software by replacing the Gicar box can be found in DaveC's messages below. This is a some information about V2 sent from Lelit to @"RobertRo101"#379: [URL=https://i.imgur.com/9DY4ibj.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/9DY4ibj.png[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/L7sqnfz.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/L7sqnfz.png[/IMG][/URL] 5\. **Anything else?** Please share.

I think Lelit "may" have confused people slightly here….not 100% certain. **In discussions with them over a year ago, I suggested that the machine might be better having:** * a pure coffee mode no steaming, so the temperature in the HX can be exact new position 0 * Steam Boost mode, which is like the old system of steam boost (the old position 1) This meant loosing the pure uncontrolled HX mode. The main reason was because I never used it and really couldn't see why anyone would use it unless they were buying an HX machine for a different use scenario than MaraX was intended for. Mauro liked this idea and I believe may well have implemented it with the new model. *Ideally of course a 3 position side switch or a second switch would have been nice to have Xmode Coffee, steam boost and pure HX. I wasn't sure the software was capable of that.* The Idea was that Xmode coffee was for the none steamed milk drinker, if someone wanted milk you could switch it into "Coffee Boost Mode", which I think they have called Xmode steam. So to summarise for the new machine, I think: **Xmode Coffee (Position 0)** - This is like the single boiler PID controlled machines giving you 3 very stable temperatures (I-0-II), minimal chance of overheating, no steam boosting, you can go back to the machine after 4 minutes or 8 minutes and it's at the right temp. **Xmode Steam (Position 1) -** The old steam boost we all know and love, and used to be position 1 on the old machine. HX mode in position 0 having gone the way of the ark. **The clues are here** [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/xreZBtN.png] **I believe the confusion is here** [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/cjUh5ud.png] I'm waiting to hear back and will let you know. If I am right, they simply need to reword the user guide slightly.

@"DavecUK"#p8395 - Dave, have you got the Xmode positions the other way around? Should it be Xmode Steam (position 1) and Xmode Coffee (position 0)? (As per manual). in your explanation I think you got the “xmode” positions the other way round. 👍

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p8399 not now 🤣

I got a reply which states my belief about the new functions is correct.

Just to add some clarity for this. **Switch Position 1** is similar to the old setting where it boosts the steam when you extract for lattes and gives a decent steam boost, I think 130+ for a bit longer than before. Of course the same issues of overheat applies as in my review, where if you don't make coffee after coffee…and wait you will have to flush. **Switch Position 0 -** used to be HX mode, but that has gone and this is special coffee and espresso without milk steaming mode… To give better stability and less overheat, with the heating element of during the shot and only boosting slightly to service the needs of HX recovery. I would think you can still steam in this mode..but it would be limited to small quantities of milk and be slower. I must remember to ask for a revised Gicar box to try it as I am not sure I have one…I have lots of different programmed boxes. 🤣, but not quite this.

Just to point out, those are the only pages from the new manual that they have sent me. I don't have any other pages and don't know if there are any other differences, other than those stated above. They have confirmed that the new software will make the machine warm-up quicker, but they did not go into detail.

> @"DavecUK"#p8448 Just to add some clarity for this. > > Switch Position 1 is similar to the old setting where it boosts the steam when you extract for lattes and gives a decent steam boost, I think 130+ for a bit longer than before. Of course the same issues of overheat applies as in my review, where if you don’t make coffee after coffee…and wait you will have to flush. > > Switch Position 0 - used to be HX mode, but that has gone and this is special coffee and espresso without milk steaming mode… To give better stability and less overheat, with the heating element of during the shot and only boosting slightly to service the needs of HX recovery. I would think you can still steam in this mode..but it would be limited to small quantities of milk and be slower. > > I must remember to ask for a revised Gicar box to try it as I am not sure I have one…I have lots of different programmed boxes. 🤣, but not quite this. @"DavecUK"#p8448 - Thank you very much for clarifying this Dave! This makes a lot of sense: Mode 1 stays the same (maybe with a stronger steam boost?), and mode 0 changes from a standard HX (which isn't useful for most) to a No-Steam-Boost-Coffee-Only mode. Yes, the names in the images they sent to @"RobertRo101"#379 can be confusing (Coffee priority now called Xmode steam, and Steam Priority replaced with Xmode coffee). Maybe they have not yet finalized the V2 manual and this is why @"RobertRo101"#p8468 got the V1 manual? Is there an option to update V1 software to V2? If someone buys a new Gicar box and replaced the old one - will that machine work as a V2? I am sure some people might be interested in that.

> @"Doram"#p8471 Is there an option to update V1 software to V2? If someone buys a new Gicar box and replaced the old one - will that machine work as a V2? I am sure some people might be interested in that. I would imagine it should work fine, expensive, but it would work….and of course you still have the old box.

Does anyone here put their hands on a MaraX with a black logo? Also, any idea if (and when) it will be available in North America? Lelit’s website shows the new black logo but still mention the original Coffee modes (brew and HX). Does anyone know if it’s because the changes are not yet available at all?

@"Snooze"#p9103 I don't, although I would like to get my hands on a Gicar box with the new programming, ako I can put it into the existing MaraX I have. I did suggest the new programming after all. I must remember tomorrow to sort that out.

Lelit Mara X V1 and V2 – the differences

EfrainPR

JPORIS I had my “new” V2 Mara X in the new coffee mode for few days in the morning when I was checking the new features and yes you will be able to steam milk it will be slower, but if your doing 3-4 oz like you mentioned then you can probably leave it in this mode all the time and switch too steam mode if you need to do larger amounts of steam milk if you have company.

JPORIS

Thank you for your replies! Helpful.

mission701

Another benefit of the v2 is that my stress levels will be lower when cleaning! I got a v2 recently but it had a v1 manual supplied. I was backflushing in Xmode steam (pos 1) which was in retrospect a bit silly as every flush would boost the pressure, correlated with a rise in anxiety! Now I can put it in Xmode coffee (pos 0) and have a stress free cleaning routine backflushing without causing the pressure to rise!

IsaacM

Hi all,
I have been an observer on this forum for a few months, and now I finally have created an account. 🤠
Last month I made the plunge and purchased the new V2 Mara X. To figure out how the Xmode Steam and Xmode coffee operated, I installed a Raspberry PI to observe the machine’s temperature readout. (I’m not the original creator, I just followed instructions from another post).
Fair to say that I got lots of interesting information, along with the fact that I have the V2 hardware with the V1 software 😓

Since installing this logger, iv noticed that sometimes it will have issues with the brew temperature settling after the steam boost period.
@DavecUK in your review you mentioned there’s a 5min window before it will take around 15mins+ for the machine to settle back to its original setpoint temperature. I do understand there are so many different variables for cooling rates but it seems like the PID is sometimes finding it hard to settle.

My software version says: C123b

In this photo, I pulled 3x (flush + wait ) to observe the brew temp impact, (indicated by the spikes in the blue graph) followed by a proper shot on the 4th. I guess I must have triggered multiple steam boosts? because then it took over 3 hours for it to stabilize.
You can see pretty large temperature oscillations in the heat exchanger temps till it settles.

Annotated:

This is what a typical shot looks like with a nice settling behavior down to the target temp.

So, I’m not really sure why sometimes the machine takes hours to settle. Any ideas I’m willing to try and post a log of it 😀.

DavecUK

IsaacM So, I’m not really sure why sometimes the machine takes hours to settle. Any ideas I’m willing to try and post a log of it

I tested a machine, but I think there may have been some minor changes made in production. I only reported on what I found with my machine, usage pattern and circumstances I did the charts to try and help people…but of course things could have changed slightly.

As for the machine taking hours to settle, I never experienced it….perhaps noise from a temp sensor?

I do have the V2 software Gicar box to install and will get around to putting it in when I return from ECM at the beginning of May. I just have a few important coffee projects on, that are eating up my time.

IsaacM

DavecUK

Thanks for the reply!

That will be super interesting once you get around to testing the V2 software.

hornbyben

It seems to only go unstable when I take multiple shots during the steam-boost period.
Tomorrow ill try replicating the same shot sequence, followed by a turn-off & on to see if it settles faster :)
This mornings shots, followed by the same oscillations:

Is this something that I should bring up with the Lelit warranty? I’m concerned that by observing the Gicar box’s serial output Lelit might deem that as a void warranty 😖

hornbyben

I don’t know if it will help for the MaraX, but you could try turning it on and off again to see if that speeds things up. As PID learn based on the previous conditions you can end up in a non optimal position. Restarting resets all the learned terms.

With the first PID I installed this helped after pulling a shot to counter the imbalance to the system that the shot caused.

DavecUK

IsaacM The reseller is responsible for your warranty, not Lelit.

logjames

What’s the consensus on this upgrade? Is it worth it upgrade to the v2 Gicar? I mostly make small milk drinks with my v1 MaraX. I don’t steam more than 100ml at a time.

Doram

logjames What’s the consensus on this upgrade? Is it worth it upgrade to the v2 Gicar? I mostly make small milk drinks with my v1 MaraX. I don’t steam more than 100ml at a time.

I think you should ask yourself a two-stage question: 1. Is it broke? 2. Will the v2 Gicar fix it?

The new software potentially will give you more steam power in the steam boost mode, and potentially give you more temp stability when making back to back espressos. So the first question is: are you short on steam power? Are you making back to back shots and feel you are not getting the same results due to temp swings because of the steam boost kicking in?

If you are always making milk drinks (so would not use the no-steam-boost mode); or if you are usually making just one drink (so will not care about steam boost affecting temp stability for further shots); or if you are steaming small quantities of milk as you said you do and have enough steam power (so will not benefit from extra steam power) - then I think you have no reason to want a V2 Gicar.

From my reading and understanding, the V2 Gicar would be good for the following situations:
1. You only use the machine for non-milk drinks AND you make multiple back-to-back shots. In this scenario you would benefit from the no-steam-boost mode, which isn’t available on the V1 Gicar.
2. You make huge milk drinks, and when you try to steam a bucket of milk you run out of steam power. In this scenario you would benefit from the longer steam boost in the V2 Gicar.

If one of the above applies to you, then a V2 Gicar might give you a better experience. But if it doesn’t, I don’t see what benefits you would get from replacing the box. For me personally (most of the time I make one drink, most of the time I steam milk and my flat whites are always small so I have no steam power issue), I don’t feel any need to update the software.

logjames

Doram It seems like the revised steam boost might cause the overheating after a shot to last longer than the 15 (ish) minutes that it is now. I typically ride that wave in the mornings, make a drink, make another 20 minutes later, my wife might steam some milk too for her chai tea latte. This doesn’t seem to improve that workflow, unless I sacrifice steam power in the new cafe plus mode, where there is no steam boost.

EfrainPR

logjames That is not happening to me with the V2, the steam boost goes down after 5 minutes after I finish steaming milk in the new steam mode unless I pour another shot of espresso.

logjames

EfrainPR Boost stops, but the group has heated up beyond the set point and needs to cool, hence the overheating…on my V1 that means about 15 minutes. The steam boiler pressure idles around 0.6 bar, this results in a group temp of around 91 +/- .5C in the medium temp setting, based on a group head thermometer I have installed. When I pull a shot, the temp rises up to 92.5 +/- 1C for the duration of the shot, and cools down to 89/90 for the first minute after. If I don’t pull another shot, the group temp will climb to 93 in 3 ½ - 4 minutes, while the steam pressure holds around 1.5 bar. When the steam pressure starts to drop after the heater stops, the group temp will have reached 95-96c before falling back down to 91 +/- .5 C in 15 minutes.

itguy

Hi Everyone - I have been trying to get to the bottom of how to identify if a MaraX gicar is the right one for V2 software. I have been talking to Bella Barista about getting hold of one to fit in my V1 MaraX. They have a recently manufactured gicar I can buy, March 2022 date on it and it has V1.90 printed on it.

Can anyone who has a MaraX V2 gicar box either take a picture of it for me or let me know what is printed on the bottom of the label on it please?

Thanks

DavecUK

itguy

This is mine, sent to me about 1 month ago. I added the red arrow as probably that’s what you should be looking for.

EfrainPR

The V2 GICAR box I have has a January 2022 date with V 1.09 printed on it.

itguy

Ahh ok thank you

itguy

Very helpful Dave, thank you. Martin @ BB sent me an email saying the one he has in stock is V1.9 but I suspect it might be a typo. I’ll ring him tomorrow and check. If it’s 1.09 then I’ll get it ordered.

MediumRoastSteam

itguy Very helpful Dave, thank you. Martin @ BB sent me an email saying the one he has in stock is V1.9 but I suspect it might be a typo.

Most likely he just disregarded the leading zero.

itguy

Yes expect so. Really keen to try out this new firmware and see how it performs as I’ve had niggly issues with mine since new really. I think some of it is my workflow / pattern though.

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