So those of us with smart meters could find ourselves hit with variable pricing tiers depending on the time of day and national demand. But what about the majority who don't have one but that's another story. The French have had variable tariffs for electricity for decades with, as I recall, up to five pricing tiers. Maybe more now. Some friends who moved into a house in the '90s were met with the electricity cutting out seemingly at random. Turned out the previous owner had installed a device so that when electricity pricing reached the highest tier whatever the time of the day - it would should down everything in the house. Can see such devices catching on here soon.

i've said this all along, as soon as you plug your fancy electric car in, ping your now on 40p a minuite charge, theres a reason they want everything running on electric. i was told the first gen smart meters will be useless as there selling the 2g bandwith they use?

Saw that in the news the other day, not particular a fan as it punishes people unfairly, sometimes due to no fault of their own. As for those who don't have smart meters, what comes to mind is water meters. Some homes are still on rates, based on the size of their home. And, whilst most people with a water meter would think twice before having a long shower or watering the lawn on a hot summer day, some of those who do not have a meter are happy to fill swimming pools in their gardens without giving a spare thought about it. The world is an unfair place, unfortunately.

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> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p8424 what comes to mind is water meters. Big difference with water meters and smart meters is the price per litre of water doesn't vary either by time of day or peak demand. Fitted a water meter some years back and our water bill roughly halved. Easy to ballpark annual consumption and see if a water meter would make sense.

When we moved in 2015, they charged us £90/month for water. We did move to meter a year later. The water bill came down to £42/month. They have made it mandatory for most of the developments in our locality. But, what does smart meter to do with variable rates in the case of electricity and gas? Either every house hold goes variable or otherwise.

> @"LMSC"#p8428 But, what does smart meter to do with variable rates in the case of electricity and gas? We are heading to the point where the price per unit of electricity will depend on general level of demand - think Economy 7 on steroids. I can see people becoming nocturnal to keep their electricity bills down

> @"Systemic"#p8427 Big difference with water meters and smart meters is the price per litre of water doesn’t vary either by time of day or peak demand. I understand that. I was simply trying to make an analogy that there will always be winners and losers (not the best analogy, granted) :-)

As ever, those living near the margins will be hit hardest - pensioners etc.

> @"Systemic"#p8432 those living near the margins will be hit hardest - pensioners etc. A lot of us have moved or are moving in that direction. 😒

We are heading for a very bumpy ride cost of living-wise. We all get lulled into the status quo effect. We've got used/addicted to cheap money - mortgages/loans. I can remember in 1992 when interest rates hit 15% - had just taken out a second mortgage. Thankfully, it went back down to 5% very quickly - how people would squeal at mortgage rates of 5%.

Not So Smart Meters

Alpesh

CoffeePhilE The cheeky sods lured my elderly father into smart meters by saying they were dated and had to be replaced or face the supply being cut off!

Pompeyexile

Cuprajake i’ve said this all along, as soon as you plug your fancy electric car in, ping your now on 40p a minuite charge,

Not true…

We have an EV and are on Octopus’s Go tarrif which means my electric is 5p kWh between the hours of 12:30am and 4:30am and standard 20 something pence per kWh for the rest of the time. I plug my car in and tell it to only charge at that time. It puts on 112 miles from my 7kw charger which is more than emough for running around every day. On a full charge I get about 280 miles. My other half goes into the office 2 to 3 times a week of a round trip of about 45 miles. A year ago we had a diesel Honda that did aprox 52 miles a gallon and diesel was about £1.21 a litre. It cost us £60 to fill it up. that was a year ago, diesel is a lot dearer now. Since going on the Go tarrif in December I am putting 112 miles on at a cost of £1.40 at time, so for 600 miles it costs me about £8.

True, Octopus like any other energy company could change that, and like all of them the standard day rate will no doubt go up, but like the hike in petrol or diesel there is nothing we can do.

We went on a smart water meter years ago and was told at the time we had a year to change our minds. Not to change the way we used water which would give us a true and fair comparison of how much more or less it cost us. It cost us nothing extra, so we kept it.

We have had a smart electric meter fitted but all that does is make you paranoid. Yes it means no more sending meter readings and that also allows them to know when we are plugged in between the hours of 12:30 and 4:30 so they can charge us the much cheaper rate. But the display in doors telling you how much you are using when you flick a light on or worse the kettle, I turned off. I don’t need something to tell me not to leave lights on in empty rooms or not to fill the kettle when I only want one cup of tea.

Cuprajake

They will do eventually once enough are on ev,

Its the old get a diesel car its cheap, economical. There now more than a petrol car.

hornbyben

Cuprajake I disagree. It would be too complicated to differentiate between electric car charging and other high draw appliances. For example while it’s slow you can charge an electric car from a standard 13amp socket.

I do agree that the running price for electric cars is going to have to go up as they increase their market penetration. As the tax on petrol/diesel is used to maintain the road infrastructure they will have to look for ways to get electric car drivers to contribute. More realistic is some sort of per road use charge.

In my opinion smart meters are necessary to give us a system that works. We don’t really have a shortage of electricity, but rather an issue with demand spikes. Real-time feedback could really help with this. For example, when you get a big spike such as when everyone starts cooking dinner, all the fridges, freezers and electric cars could automatically stop running (within certain bounds so your fridge/freezer is still cold), as they’re usually not time critical. This would really help smooth the demand.

Regarding cost, the high and low costs are what energy providers pay, the only difference with smart meters is that the information gives options (as opposed to just charging a flat rate that covers this). This might be variable pricing, or perhaps a home battery or car battery could charge when the electricity is cheap and then sell it back when it’s expensive. It’s a market economy, so companies will always do different deals. Companies don’t last if they lose money, so whether you do or don’t have a smart meter they will cover their costs and you can choose the model that best suits your needs.

Nightrider_1uk

Systemic

Then the price will rise at night as the demand has risen

LMSC

Nightrider_1uk We never had day time and night time rates, in places we lived!

Systemic

Nightrider_1uk Then the price will rise at night as the demand has risen

Yep. Supply and demand. Read yesterday about a plan to leech power from electric cars while they are charging (presumably at low demand times) and pay the car owner for the privilege. Nice to know there is a joined up energy strategy.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC isn’t the night time rates designed so storage heater radiators could “recharge” in the night so it’s “fair”? Economy7 or something like that?

LMSC

Always on a standard tariff.

We always had a standard meter in our former homes. Our current home is an old build - 40 years. We moved in a few years ago. The seller told us it’s all standard meter for them when they purchased as a new build; they replaced with a smart meter a year before they sold the property.

Doram

CoffeePhilE Finally, after being very insistent indeed on the phone, they agreed to note “not having one” on my file, and when I threatened legal action over their harrassing letters, to stop pestering me too.

Can you or anyone explain the reasons to not have a smart meter? I personally didn’t get one yet, but I think it is probably down to my high need to avoid closure (and maybe the fact they are pushing it at me, for free, makes me suspicious?).

I remember hearing some objection to them, and because I can get them any time - I never bothered. But if I think about it, I can’t come up with reasons for that. I don’t mind sending meter readings, but I don’t get any particular kick from sending them (and see the fact they don’t have to send someone over to read them every now and then a positive). Then there is the fact that they know how I am using energy, but why would I care? Is there any reasons I am missing?

DavecUK

Doram Can you or anyone explain the reasons to not have a smart meter? I personally didn’t get one yet, but I think it is probably down to my high need to avoid closure (and maybe the fact they are pushing it at me, for free, makes me suspicious?).

I got one when I moved to Ovo, perhaps 10 years ago, I moved from them about 2 years later and no company has ever been able to read it since, even though it apparently can be read. So initially it was a crock…which we all paid for (the meters were not really free! Boy did that rollout cost a lot and the twats in the government set no standards, so each company used different meters and couldn’t read the others…unless they made an effort. You would think they went out of their way to do that, thus making customers “sticky”….who would have guessed such a thing would happen.

Ofgem are not the consumers friend, not at all. Remember how they were going to simply tariffs. I remember before this crisis, it was nearly impossible to find a list of Tariffs, when you did, companies would present you with 200 and not tell you which ones were current or not. You had to go thru some stupid quote system…what a PITA|. They allowed a massive amount of confusion to reign in the energy markets…

They are there to protect the companies, not us. Gas has gone up, but why electric…what happened to make that cost more. Unless it’s generated by burning gas, if so why are we not burning our own

You might as well get a smart meter, because if you don’t, before all of us with smart meters get reamed in some way….you will be double reamed for not having one. Someone has to pay for this energy balls up and for the government bailouts of the energy market, when the companies went bankrupt, the government paid the suppliers of last resort as well. It all has to be paid back. We have another rise coming in October…then winter and we will all hurt with massive energy bills….which I suspect wo’t fall very much after Octobers double reaming….leaving us feeling grateful our energy bills have only gone up by 60%.

And all because of a headlong rush to go green, with 0 planning about how best to get there.

Doram

DavecUK You might as well get a smart meter, because if you don’t, before all of us with smart meters get reamed in some way….you will be double reamed for not having one.

Thanks Dave. This is an argument for the smart meters. :-)

I know some feel strongly against getting them (e.g. CoffeePhilE), and were wondering what were the reasons for that.

dutchy101

I moved from Eon to Bulb (I wanted to go with a totally renewable provider) a month before they went into administration. My bills have already gone up from £111 a month to £180.

My friend was telling me his December bill with Bulb was £500 and he’s expecting the same for January. He has electricity only - no gas. His monthly bills over the summer were £50.

Surely that’s a cock-up as opposed to a real bill. He was only £29 in arrears in November and this is based on meter readings - not a smart meter

LMSC

We are with Ovo with tariffs fixed from end Sep 21 to Sep 23. Our monthly payment has gone up £40 a month to £164. The smart meter was installed by Scottish Power. The Ovo can’t read. We provide the update once a month, which is not a big deal. It takes 30s to read and upload on the app.

MediumRoastSteam

Doram - you could argue that, with a smart meter:

they can tell you if you are at home, as you’d therefore use electricity; (not a big deal, because Google, Apple, and what nots can also tell that and a lot better)
They can identify your patterns and charge you accordingly;
They could technically hack your meter - it’s connected after all.

Cuprajake

I dont see how a smart meter helps the consumer

I have no benefit to using one, its in their interest.

Plus i dont trus big business, whos to say they dont add a unit here or there, over a million customers it adds up. But we all know big business couldn’t be that shady 🤣

Theres only one winner in all of this and its not us little cash cows. I really do feel like im plugged into the matrix, being bled dry

LMSC

The smart meters in current shape and form aren’t going to be helping consumers in saving some £££. It helps estimate the energy consumption fairly accurately than the current practice. To be effective at the consumer level:

It needs to be standardised therefore it works across the service providers
Sensors are required at every point or most critical points— smart plugs and smart switches, and enabled as a dashboard therefore the consumers can look at what’s costing or otherwise and turn on/off or what ever is convenient to them.

The second point is going to bring a lot of other challenges:

Host of IoT security challenges, which most of the public isn’t capable of digesting, let alone do something about it.
Serious privacy issues, where, we don’t want an X, Y, Z to see what we have, what we consume, how we consume and so on. More over, if that XYZ go down, we may have a melt down.

There are advantages for the consumers, country and industries as a whole

Accurate estimation and management of energies from sustainability angle
Do sensors analytics to proactively Identify hazards, fix them and reduce / minimise costly repairs and insurance claims
Sellers can identify the parts, which require replacements and work with consumers to fix them
Overall, improve the customer experience!

Bottom line:

Smart meters - whether we like it or otherwise - are inevitable. It doesn’t bother me until they become sensors into my home. 😊

dfk41

In order for me to read the meters, I have to kneel down then lower my head sideways. The result is my glasses fall off and due to osteoarthritis I have extreme difficulty in getting up again! In this age, where the digital expansion seems to accepted everywhere else, then what the heck is the big issue?
Have you thought bout how many times you are caught on camera without permission. If you drive from A to B you will be picked up endless times.
The smart meters in their simplest application, save me from bending down and my glasses fall off……life is simple sometimes

Systemic

Before our provider Pure Planet went bust, they offered us a new smart meter gratis. We’d had one for years - big ugly thing so we took Pure Planet’s offer. It’s smaller and has a colour display but, unlike our previous one, doesn’t allow you to check readings which is bizarre. Maybe I haven’t discovered that function yet.

Anyone else in this position?

DavecUK

Systemic but, unlike our previous one, doesn’t allow you to check readings which is bizarre. Maybe I haven’t discovered that function yet.

Usually you have to press a button, on my meter, it’s 9…then it displays all the different values one after another.

Pompeyexile

It took us a year and a half to get a smart meter because when we first asked for one, they said they couldn’t fit it. it seems living where I do in North Yorkshire, some 40 miles away from RAF Fylingdales, an establishment that moitors our skies for ballistic missiles and the like, the frequency the meters worked on interefered with either the RAF or the RAF interferred with the meter. Whichever it was, it took them a year to come up with a meter that used a different frequency. I was sceptical, but when I looked into it, it was definitely kosha.

Still not all as it should be though, because I have both my Electric and Gas with Octopus. When they fitted the smart meter for the electric it came with one for the gas too, the idea being is they speak to each other and details of usage all goes automatically through the ether without me having to bother to look and send it off manually. But, my gas meter is on the opposite side of the house to the electric meter and because of that, the meters can’t talk to each other as the signal is not strong enough and so, I still have to manually check the gas readings and send them off each month.

Technology….isn’t it wonderful.

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