Lelit Elizabeth recommended preinfusion/timing/temp settings

gobucks

I’ve had my Elizabeth for a few weeks now, and I’m currently trying to figure out how to work with lighter and/or natural washed single origins. Currently working on a Ethiopian Sidamo natural washed (medium roast), early results were super sour, but extending the steam preinfusion time to 14 seconds helped quite a bit.

Has anybody come up with some good starting points for brew settings (preinfusion time/steam pressure/shot time/brew temp) to handle single origins or other atypical espresso beans? I realize every coffee is different, just wanted to make sure I’m starting in the right ballpark for the coffees I’m using, and I can tweak from there.

Thanks in advance!

hedonist222

What’s your recipe?

Grams grinded, time before first drip, total time, and weight of your extraction.

What do you mean by “extending steam preinfusion”.

gobucks

hedonist222 I just meant increasing the total time of steam preinfusion before the pump kicks on. So for a normal med/dark espresso blend I would do 8 second preinfusion (3 seconds pumping, 5 seconds steam pressure), but that seems inadequate for a lighter roast, so I bumped it to 14 seconds total.

For my most recent attempt, my dosage was 16g, 94C temp, 14s preinfusion @130C steam temp, it took maybe 2-3 secs after preinfusion for first drips, and I think I got something like 30g out at 46s (so 32s shot time + 14s preinfusion). I was thinking maybe I need to go up half a step on my Niche Zero to get those drips a couple seconds earlier, and maybe get a slighly higher brew ratio. Do any of these settings seem way off for a medium roast natural washed ethiopian?

hedonist222

I’m not familiar steam preinfusion.

Are you certain that’s what it is?

Steam?

Grif

Its not PI with steam,but with brew water pressurised by steam from the service boiler….neat trick of the Lelit Liz👍

gobucks

Grif @hedonist222 Grif Yes, what Grif said. Sorry if my description was confusing. I have it set to pump water into the puck for 3s, and then the remaining preinfusion time (currently at 11s) is applying steam boiler pressure to that water (steam boiler is at 130C, so I think it’s 1.7 bar steam pressure). For preinfusion, is the goal to get the first drips of coffee just after the vibration pump kicks in? Because I’m seeing maybe a 3s delay here, wondering if I should grind a bit coarser, or add a few extra seconds to preinfusion time. I’d be really interested in hearing some actual preinfusion settings that Elizabeth owners use for different types of coffee, to know if I’m in the right ballpark.

DavecUK

gobucks HBGow much coffee in g and for how long, after the preinfusion phase?

Without this, your question cannot be answered properly.

gobucks

just to follow up, does anyone want to share their preinfusion settings for light/medium roasts?

gobucks

DavecUK So I’m putting in 16g of a natural process, medium roast ethiopian sidamo. I figured I probably need a higher temp (currently 94C), and longish shot time (30-32s not including preinfusion time). Aiming for an output of ~36g. Preinfusion is currently set to 16 secs total (3s pump, 13s steam). Tried a lot of different small tweaks to temp, time, grind, preinfusion time, but not liking the results so far, usually too sour, occasionally too bitter. Do any of these variables sound out of whack for this type of coffee?

TBH, more than how to fix this specific coffee, I’m hoping for some advice from people who brew with lots of different types of coffee as to what default values they would use when encountering a brand new light/med/dark roast coffee, respectively. I am operating under the assumption that when going from dark -> light roast, brew temp goes up, shot length goes up, preinfusion time goes up, grind size goes finer. No idea whether I should adjust my shot output volume, and if so, which direction. Are any of my assumptions way off base?

hornbyben

gobucks if it’s sour then that suggests your under extracting. I’d try pulling a higher ratio (in a similar time). I’d probably go at least 1:3 (so 16g coffee to 48g espresso). You might settle on a bit shorter, but by making a reasonable size change you can see if you like the change.

MediumRoastSteam

gobucks - try this (i like the same sort of coffee you do, natural Ethiopian etc, medium light sort of thing):

Set temperature to 93C or 92C.
steam pre infusion for 10s;
Likewise for bloom pre infusion.
The aim for pre-infusion is to get one or 2 drips right at the end, or as soon as it ends and the pump runs again.
18g in, 36g out (or thereabouts, there’s more to life 😊) in approx. 35s.

The shot time includes pre-infusion. Adding pre-infusion as an extra time component is a misconception, as with pre-infusion the shot runs significantly faster afterwards. Therefore, without pre-infusion, also aim for 35s or thereabouts.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam Do you find a difference in notes and taste with and without PI?

dutchy101

MediumRoastSteam try this (i like the same sort of coffee you do, natural Ethiopian etc, medium light sort of thing):

Set temperature to 93C or 92C

Interesting. I thought lighter roasts were meant to better at higher temperatures?

I think some roasters suggest temperatures which I like the idea of. Takes the guesswork out.

Will be reading this thread with interest.

gobucks

MediumRoastSteam Thanks, that’s really helpful. So if I’m doing, say, a 16s steam preinfusion, total shot time 44s, that’s going too long? I was just operating under the assumption you just added preinfusion time to normal shot time for total shot time, but it sounds like i’ve been running shots too long, maybe what I’m getting in the cup is bitterness more than sourness (I’m still pretty new at this, I THINK I kinda get the difference, but sometimes it can be a little confusing, especially if I’m going in blind).

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - I do, for sure. To me, the coffee feels more “muted, rounded” without PF. My tastebuds are not the best though. :-)

MediumRoastSteam

dutchy101 - The best thing is to try it out and see what works for you. I’m very fond of following advice and checking them for myself. I’m not the type of person who will always use 96C for “light roasts” - whatever that means - without also checking what they taste like at other temps.

So I’m just suggesting what works for me. Doesn’t mean it will work for others, but it’s a suggestion.

dutchy101

MediumRoastSteam

Yes absolutely. I’ve only just got my hands on a machine where I can adjust the brew boiler temperature so looking forward to experimenting.

MediumRoastSteam

gobucks - In my opinion, yes. Your shots are a bit too long. It doesn’t mean it’s wrong though, but as you are saying yourself, you are finding your shots not to your taste, so you need pointers for improvements.

And I agree - sourness and bitterness can be confusing. The “gospel” is that under extraction (ending a shot prematurely) / too cold temperature will cause sourness; Over extraction (running a shot for too long) / running too hot will cause bitterness.

So give it a go. If it helps, happy days. :-)

gobucks

MediumRoastSteam I wonder if it would make sense to think of preinfusion time as operating at half speed, or something like that? As in, if I were to do a long preinfusion (like 16s), maybe it would make sense to treat that as 8 seconds of shot time, because if I treated it as a full 16s, then the rest of the shot would be 16s at most, which seems way too fast.

Anyway, I did run a shot that was close to the parameters you suggested, I got 16 in, ~32 out in 39s with 10s preinfusion at 92C. First drips came out maybe 2s after the pump started back up. It was definitely drinkable, but (i think) a bit acidic for my taste. Not sure if it was a tad sour, or if that’s just the proper acidity that an ethiopian natural should have, and I just need to get used to it. It went into a cortado, which is how I usually deal with any less-than-ideal but still drinkable shot. I could go a bit coarser, but then I’d be a little worried about acidity. Should I maybe go a half setting coarser but bump up the temp to maybe 93C to compensate?

Also weirdly enough, I just noticed that the bag itself classifies this particular coffee as a “dark” roast, but it definitely doesn’t look dark to me, I would classify it as medium - certainly no darker than, say, Stumptown Hair Bender, which I assume a lot of people (Americans at least) are familiar with.

MediumRoastSteam

gobucks - Increase the temp to 93 or 94 if it’s too acidic. But ultimately, you do what you think is right. If you want to treat as that shot took 34s (10s of pre-infusion divided by 2 = 5) so be it. I’m not hung up on time, just find what works for me (whether it’s 39s or 34s) It doesn’t really bother me.