Hello Guys, Planning to get Lelit Elizabeth and digging through all issues and recommendations. So the question is: if am gonna use bottled water with good quality ( hardness 65/ pH 7/ chloride 45ppm/ calcium 17ppm/ magnesium 6ppm/ tds 115). So do i need a water filter in the machine that am gonna buy? Or it's better not to use it? Does the filter eleminate necessary salts for a good coffee? Water filter that i mean is the lelit tank filter. Thanks Ibrahim

Welcome to the forum…. @"Rob1"#171 is our water expert…but from my perspective. The Lelit filter will reduce scaling . By how much (from new to old) and for how long probable depends on your current water

@"DavecUK"#p10481 Thanks man, appreciate the quick response. The plan is to use bottled water as long it's the best option I have. The point is will the filter reduce the quality of coffee if used (removal of balanced amount of salts from the bottled water)?

@"Ibrahim"#p10482 Some people think it does, others think it doesn't? You can find a good bottled water that won't scale due to composition, and perhaps not use the in tank filter at all.

@"DavecUK"#p10488 Thanks a lot for help dave

Hardness looks a little high, do you know the bicarbonate or alkalinity concentration? Chlorides are above LM recommended spec for boiler safety, which is quite a generous limit imo.

[URL=https://i.imgur.com/PMycURF.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/PMycURF.jpg[/IMG][/URL] @"Rob1"#p10652

@"Rob1"#p10652 here's a photo of that specific water brand. And thanks Rob 😊

You'll need to raise alkalinity to about 40mg/l, maybe more. Worth saying you might get away with less as plenty of people use ashbeck and enoy it. At 40mg/l it'll be slightly scale forming at service boiler temps (e.g 125c) due to the hardness present if the alkalinity comes from bicarbonate sources e.g. sodium bicarb, which is most commonly used to remineralise water by people using RO and DI water. It's far from ideal water for coffee as it is. You don't really need hardness, alkalinity will act as a buffer and reduce perceived acidity. If it is too low you can get sour coffee and the water can be quite aggressive for boilers. You have almost no alkalinity as it is. So in answer to your question the filter won't eliminate necessary salts for good coffee, it'll replace hardness ions of Ca and Mg with Na and leave the negligible bicarbonate unaltered. At brew boiler temps it'll be fine even up to 115c with alkalinity added up to 40mg/l even if you have a 20c offset to get 95c at the group….which you probably won't? The problem would be in the service boiler which you'll need to descale. Dave will know more about the Elizabeth specifically and how prone it is to problems from scaling and whether or not you even can just descale the service boiler as I'm not sure with the way the Elizabeth works. I wouldn't use this water in a 316 or 316l steel boiler though due to high chlorides, which a filter will not remove. Though you could use a filter to remove hardness and add alkalinity yourself before or after filtration. Using a filter is really at odds with using bottled water though.

@"Rob1"#p11090 That's why Dave called you the water expert! Only who works in water can know that much. Thanks a lot man. In this case I'll be looking for another alternative for this brand. Limited choices here! And tap water is a desalinated sea water, am getting residues even with filteration. I'll update you and thanks 👍

Hi, forgive me if this has been answered before, but i am a new member and still finding my way around! I have just purchased a Lelit Elizabeth, and I believe it is possible to 'regenerate' the in line water filter using salt much like a household water softener, is this feasible? My other question is I have a 'drinking water' tap with an 'Anti scale' filter which keeps the kettle pretty scale free. I checked the hardness of the water from this with a test strip, and it came back as hard! I contacted the manufacturer, who said that was normal as the calcium was not removed from the water, but rendered inactive by the filter. Not sure if this would be OK for my machine or not?

Water filter importance when using bottled water

Ibrahim

Rob1

Then following the easy path will be for emptying the service boiler.

So I’ll be using rpalvis recipe until i become confident with machine, then might ask you later on in depth about your recipe.

Plus refilling service boiler with distilled water every few weeks or days to ensure no scale build up.

And lastly will be using lelit filter 70l as a guarantee also.

Rob1

Ibrahim If you’re remineralising to a spec don’t use a filter, it makes no sense. The filter will just alter the water in a way that is inconsistent. If you just use the bicarb recipe to get 40-50mg/l alkalinity then don’t bother with the distilled water step as you can’t get scale from bicarbonate alone.

Ibrahim

JahLaza

You mean more clarity (fruitness), right?

JahLaza

Ibrahim no, not clarity just an exaggerated ‘fruity’ taste/note from the coffee, as if a drop of fruit concentrate was added or something!

Ibrahim

JahLaza

So fruitness is just like a flavor profile

And clarity is the ability to distinguish between two or more flavor profiles and their popping in coffee.

Rob1

JahLaza could be higher alkalinity - which buffers the acid and maybe makes the acids more balanced with the sugars (i.e fruity), whereas lower alkalinity may make the coffee ‘bright’ rather than fruity. The opposite could also be true (i.e now fruity because previous acids were too subdued).

JahLaza

Ibrahim I think so. I may not be using the correct olfactory descriptive terms but that’s the best way I can describe

Ibrahim

JahLaza

As long it’s a delicious coffee, then it doesn’t matter.

Ibrahim

Rob1

R pavlis recipe has alkalinity of 50 mg/L CaCO3 equivalent (full strength r pavlis).

In this case i can Remove distilled water step (i mean refilling service boiler) like you said and no need for filter.

Perfect!

dutchy101

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/areas-london-residents-drink-dirtiest-23927009

This gave me s laugh earlier.

Camden recorded a TDS rating of 302. This means that according to the World Health Organisation, people in Camden are drinking water of a “poor” quality.

Meanwhile in Ruislip:

302 TDS in Camden you say? Luxury

DavecUK

dutchy101 Norfolk? or East Anglia?

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK

dutchy101 Meanwhile in Ruislip

London village 😉

dutchy101

MediumRoastSteam

London borough of Hillingdon I think you’ll find haha

DavecUK

That’s really poor water quality..

dutchy101

DavecUK

Yep it’s shocking really - a snip at £43 per momth

Bagpu55

I do find this water chemistry slightly over my head at times and complex. I use a distiller and basically use 0.1g of bicarb per litre of RO. I want to be as boiler safe as I can be but I likewise dont want to overly sacrifice espresso taste. Am I right just to keep going as I am (will this water be better with lighter, medium, darker beans?), I have food grade epsom salts but have been a bit paranoid to use them or maybe find a midway receipe?

MediumRoastSteam

Bagpu55 - Im on the same boat as you. However, unless you have it side by side, you’ll find very hard to be able to tell the difference. Saying that, I remember when I started using the distiller (I went from Ashbeck to Distilled water) and I immediately noticed that my coffee was very “bright”. And then I remember speaking to Dave about it, and he said that our tastebuds get used to new tastes very easily. And he was right.

However, try this:

Brew a Moka Pot, or Aeropress, or whatever else that’s not espresso with the water you use in your espresso machine;
Use Volvic, or Tesco Ashbeck, or Waitrose Essentials (Lockhills?) (stuff that people put into their machines) and then try something different, like Evian.

It’s a very good way of asserting what difference water makes when brewing.

DavecUK

Ro-Ro The man says 100ml shoots into the grouphead in minute 6 and five seconds!

It’s a lever, that’s how they work. You need around 50-60 ml to make an espresso. If your water is expensive, then you need to consider different machines. I mean that’s why you’re here (not to advertise water I hope)? What machine have you got at the moment.

erkal

Which one is a good bottled water to use in the UK?

Pompeyexile

My question echoes erkals.

Some of us for a multitude of reasons I’m sure only use either tap water or bottled water. So, whilst I know there are many brands out there, which if any of the bottled waters people on here have used would be the lesser of evils for our machines?

In my Sage I have only ever used Waitrose own (Lockhills?) and in the past in my Gaggia have used Tesco’s Ashbeck basically because those were mentioned on the forum.

MWJB

Pompeyexile The two you mention (which are currently the same thing) plus Volvic.

@MediumRoastSteam mentions these brands just 3 posts back.

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