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tompoland Fiat got better after VW bought them
Is that so? Are you sure FIAT is owned by VW? I wasn’t aware.
tompoland Fiat got better after VW bought them
Is that so? Are you sure FIAT is owned by VW? I wasn’t aware.
MediumRoastSteam I think this is just a misquote from above. Not sure the car analogies are that relevant. BMW only bought the Rolls Royce trademark and makes completely different cars for a different market than RR did.
The RR and Bentley Business was sold to VW how now make Bentleys (having not acquired the RR trademark) - again very different cars from before for a different market.
Fiat owned half of Ferrari since the late 60’s then bought more in the 90’s before the whole company went into partnership with Chrysler who spun off Ferrari into a separate entity again fairly recently. Ferrari is one of these unusual companies that probably make more money selling branded caps and watches than they do cars.
Gagaryn is right re VW/Fiat. My bad. Never a good idea to rely on my memeory. Regardless of who bought who, the point remains that smart companies acquire other companies and tend to grow those brands as separate entities rather than absorb them. IMHO (and with full respect for others who beg to differ) that’s the relevance of the car analogy. Here’s VW acquisitions with these brands and what they stand for typically having been made stronger post acquisition:
Audi
Bugatti
Porsche
SEAT
Lamborghini
Skoda
MAN
Scania
Ducati
My point being that a smart aquirer makes the aquired brand stronger, not weaker.
Your honour, I rest my case.
(As always, time will tell)
Gagaryn There is only ever one winner in a public company when the product development team has a disagreement with the accountants.
Yes - @DavecUK has always stated that lelit are a great company for innovating and wanting to improve. They’ve listened to and implemented his suggested improvements to make the product better for the end user. As per quote above I can’t see that continuing (to the same extent anywho!) - pity, I was looking forward to future products. maybe lelit didn’t think they could make better machines by now and thought it time to cash in🤔
JahLaza maybe lelit didn’t think they could make better machines by now and thought it time to cash in
£100,000,000. That’s a nice retirement for the Epis family.
Gagaryn Surely this argument is only for machines built under the new regime?
MediumRoastSteam My view is good luck to the ex owners, they worked hard they built a brand they were successful….they made some great machines.
Yeah I think regardless of what happens Lelit have made some incredible machines and I’m still super happy with mine.
As long as I can keep getting mine repaired then best of luck to the new partnership!
never know - may make the bianca a rare beast in yrs to come. im sitting on a gold mine
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
tompoland with such acquisitions there is a risk that products become more homogenous and it stifles innovation. An Audi A3 is essentially a VW Golf with a different trim. An Audi R8 is very similar under the hood to a Lamborghini Huracan. Even a Bentley Continental GT shares some cheap parts with an Audi A3!
Breville seem like a smart company and they know how to appeal to the average consumer - hopefully they understand when to keep a good thing going…as many have said, time will tell and your typical coffee prosumer is a bit more savvy.
In some ways more established manufacturers such as Rancilio become more appealing as they have built there brand on commercial machines.
In the very best case scenario, Breville will not ruin Lelit. In the more likely scenario, coffee lovers lose a relatively small innovative specialty player to the greed of money-giants who will never have enough and always want more (and more, and more). For those who like what is going on in the world with the likes of google, amazon, facebook etc. - this might be something to celebrate. For the rest, this is sad news.
Hmm, an interesting take on capitalism.
Not sure the argument that big = lack of innovation quite holds true, see Apple and Tesla (or the three companies you already mentioned).
Mark-drinks-coffee Not sure the argument that big = lack of innovation quite holds true, see Apple and Tesla (or the three companies you already mentioned).
Where did I say big companies lack innovation? I said that the reality in which whenever something good grows, anywhere and in any field, it is likely to be gobbled up by bigger money, so that it can make even more money, is a sad thing. I would have preferred to see Lelit continue with what they were doing, as they were doing it, rather than them becoming a part of a huge international appliance conglomerate. In my view, the most likely result of this acquisition is that Breville will gain while everyone else will lose.
As above…
Doram In my view, the most likely result of this acquisition is that Breville will gain while everyone else will lose.
Apart from the previous owners/ shareholders who I presume pocket the £100m sale price?
I obviously have no idea what the motivations were for the founders/ owners of Lelit but a number of entrepreneurs/ start ups have the explicit aim of building a company to then be acquired by someone else. They often have this exit strategy from day 1.
Mark-drinks-coffee Apart from the previous owners/ shareholders who I presume pocket the £100m sale price?
I obviously have no idea what the motivations were for the founders/ owners of Lelit but a number of entrepreneurs/ start ups have the explicit aim of building a company to then be acquired by someone else. They often have this exit strategy from day 1.
Yes, of course some people’s strategy is to make an exit, and others can’t resist the temptation. And obviously Lelit’s owners/shareholders will make money as well. That isn’t the point I was trying to make. The point is that the reality today is that there is only room for very few players, who are so strong that no one else can compete (and if anything good tries - they will buy it).
Yes, buying things on amazon is convenient and the prices usually a little cheaper, but this comes at a huge cost to everyone while Jeff Bezos becomes richer and stronger than most countries. As a coffee hobbyist, I don’t see any way to look at Breville buying Lelit as a positive thing.
I am not sure this is the best place for this discussion, and it seems that we will only go round in circles if we continue. I will try to stop. :)
I work in the tech industry and you’re completely correct.
I’ve also been part of the ‘acquired’ company on more than one occasion and I can say with confidence that it very much sucks for everyone who isn’t a shareholder.
This may be a completely useless analogy as we’re talking about coffee machines and not tech companies, but usually the purpose of acquisition is to either buy into a market the parent company isn’t yet in, or to incorporate their products into the parent product.
Again though I hope they just continue to operate as their own entity with the logistic/supply chain support of Breville.
Doram I am not sure this is the best place for this discussion, and it seems that we will only go round in circles if we continue. I will try to stop. :)
Yup I agree, but it was nice to voice (and listen to) different opinions without us calling each other names!
It’s a great discussion and everyone is making points and supporting their views, but also being respectful when disagreeing.
Mark-drinks-coffee Yup I agree, but it was nice to voice (and listen to) different opinions without us calling each other names!
It was nice. We all seem to be able to do this on Coffeetime, realise others may have different opinions to us and be respectful with our own opinions…it’s what makes it such a great forum.
Whatever happens with Lelit, there is a wealth of knowledge on here to enable us to keep our machines in good order for decades. I must remember to get a copy of the V3 Bianca firmware. I suppose I could read it back off my own LCC and save it. All of the components are industry standard, or replaceable with Industry standard components.
A lot of companies have been acquired by corporates over the years…Isomac, Expobar (now Crem), Rocket….it’s just the way of the world. ACS and ECM are still owner companies, but there are very few new entrants into what is a Tough market..ACS was probably the last new proper manufacturer to enter the market.