Vesuvius Pressure Profiling Machine - General Discussion

If it cannot be replicated in factory then there is another issue somewhere.

The machine that went back to acs has that come back to the owner yet?

DavecUK I’m aware you tried to replicate this and it was not possible and I aware you spent quite a lot of time of holiday, I’m really sorry for this. Again, I appreciate you tried to solve this in such a short and busy time. But unfortunately (for me and my machine) this doesn’t change anything. Regardless the pid setting I choose, my machine works different if the service boiler is hot. I can see it, I can hear it and I can taste it when it produces a too slow flow.

@DavecUK Yesterday afternoon, I tried the parameters suggested by Dave (3.2kp 0.00 ki 48 kd and 1100 pump acceleration) with Steam boiler on and off, but the machine did not show any difference. I made 12 videos, but I didn’t notice nothing very remarkable (but judging by the sound of the pump there was a difference, but not very evident). Then, I must say that I take care of Dave’s holidays inconvenience, because it is difficult to “cause the machine to fail”, however in my personal morning routine it’s very easy. I will explain this: the machine switches on automatically at 6:50 a.m., I wake up at 7:20 a.m. and I make coffee at 7:30 a.m. When I arrive in front of the machine, the steam boiler is normally at eco mode (12 minutes for eco mode because the machine reaches the temperature in less than 10 minutes), then I make coffee, while the steam boiler rises to 130 degrees Celsius. If I wait a little more time, or if I touch the screen, the steam boiler warm up, and if it rises 130º (approximately) IN THIS CASE THE MACHINE FAIL ALWAYS, the extraction is not normal. My solution for this is switching off the steam boiler before coffee extraction, making the coffee, and then, switching on the steam boiler (with tactile screen it’s very easy and the boiler reaches the temperature quickly) and then I steam the milk. Also, If I make the coffee quickly with eco mode, not problem. I was happy with this, it was not a problem for me, and the Vesuvius coffee is really great, I had assumed this little inconvenience. If I insist with this is only out of pure curiosity, and also to collaborate with my friend @kautivo. When he said to me that Dave and Paolo would look at his machine, I was happy because I thought that you really would find the CAUSE of the problem (it is more important for me than the solution or any partial solution like adapting the pid configuration). Well, in fact it’s not really important for me, I have also spent time with this and I was also determined not to spend more time and effort. I had adapted my morning routine.

 I show you the videos of this morning where you can see the failure. The step pressure configuration is: 8” 2 bars, rest at 8 bars. As you can see with the steam boiler ON the pump sound is very different in the pre-infusion, and also pressure rises to 10 bars despite being configurated at 8 bars, after a very pronounced acceleration of the pump (stuck? Circuit empty? i really don’t know). In the video with the steam boiler OFF the pump rises to 8 bars gently.

Video with de Steam boiler ON, different sound, different acceleration, 10 bars:

Configuration: 8” at 2 bars, rest at 8 bars:

https://www.veed.io/view/b912b7e3-235f-4d99-b4c5-d3a462324db2?panel=share

Videio with the Steam OFF, pre-infusion correct, gently acceleration of the pump to 8 bars

https://www.veed.io/view/d78ac11a-6679-4c43-b663-e51ae9fb9971?panel=share

SAME PID AND PUMP CONFIGURATION, BUT DIFFERENT EXTRACTION.

Thanks!

AJuar SAME PID AND PUMP CONFIGURATION

Bizarre. The pump is clearly accelerating much quicker with the steam boiler on. I have no idea why that would be I’m afraid but I’m sure somebody will.

AJuar My solution for this is switching off the steam boiler before coffee extraction, making the coffee, and then, switching on the steam boiler (with tactile screen it’s very easy and the boiler reaches the temperature quickly) and then I steam the milk. Also, If I make the coffee quickly with eco mode, not problem. I was happy with this, it was not a problem for me, and the Vesuvius coffee is really great, I had assumed this little inconvenience. If I insist with this is only out of pure curiosity, and also to collaborate with my friend @kautivo. When he said to me that Dave and Paolo would look at his machine, I was happy because I thought that you really would find the CAUSE of the problem (it is more important for me than the solution or any partial solution like adapting the pid configuration). Well, in fact it’s not really important for me, I have also spent time with this and I was also determined not to spend more time and effort. I had adapted my morning routine.

Yes, that is what I’m doing for years. Not switching the boiler off but playing with the eco mode to keep temperature under 120º. I have adapted my routine, yes, it works ok this way but… it’s annoying.

DavecUK Thank you, I’ll try both.

DavecUK Like yesterday, in the afternoon the Vesuvius didn’t fail at all. This is another information that could be important? It only fails in the morning, when the machine is cold, after all night switched off, and it warms from less temperature. Perhaps a valve? I really don’t know, I have no idea.

Thank you very much, tomorrow morning I will do the two suggested tests.

Adrianmsmith Dave do you know the correct tap size please to clean out the old thread locker on the back side of the valve.

Also what semi permanent thread locker would you use to re-assemble?

I would simply use a very small jewellers type screwdriver to un down the thread, you don’t need a tap and only need to get the loose stuff out.

Loxeal 18:10 is a good semipermanent thread locker, you will only need one or two drops…personally though I would try PTFE tape first as it’s much much cheaper and should work fine.

I took this wand apart completely and assembled it with Loxeal 18:10 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314135700947?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338723872&toolid=20006&customid=ll0fvV4aAAAAiyt0J_JRzj-leU4wAAAAAA

You can also use Loctite 542

DavecUK I have made the two tests, and in both cases the machine tends to fail in a potential failure condition (not always). Also, in one case out of 20 approximately, with the boiler priority, the machine has showed very different pressure behaviour even with the steam boiler off, from cold. I have the video of this but I’m not going to upload because I know that you trust me. This should be an evidence of a capricious mechanical little valve stuck? I don’t know.

To sum up, the machine:

-          WITH THE SAME PID CONFIGURATION THE MACHINE MAKES DIFFERENT EXTRACTIONS.

-          The machine shows an astonishing regular behaviour with the STEAM BOILER OFF. She makes GREAT COFFEE, or very predictable or regular extractions.

-          There is some relationship between the pressure of the STEAM BOILER, because the machine fails an high percentage of times with the STEAM BOILER ON, or with high temperature in any part of the internal machine.

I know that this failure is difficult to solve, but I hope that ACS technicians have the time and the capacity to investigate with the @kautivo Vesuvius machine to try to identify the CAUSE of this capricious failure in order to solve it.  If not, I assume that ACS Vesuvius works like this and I’ll continue to make the coffee with my little annoying morning routine (switching off and on the steam boiler in the morning).

Thanks!

AJuar Sorry to not following the history of entire discussion… anyway my question if this behavior is happening regardless if steam boiler in in ECO-mode or not?

Spid3r00 my friend in Eco mode the steam boiler is with low temperature then there isn’t fail…

what dose it do at different stem boiler temps? 120 -125 -130 etc,

Cuprajake the dosis is the same, 17g or 18g the fail happens when the steam boiler is over 120°…

but under 120 fine?

i personally have all my machines at 125,

have you tried 123 and a two hole tip,

its a very weird fault