So after a lot of shots pulled at standard 9 bar on the new for me Minima I feel it's time to start playing with the Lelit flow profiling kit it has. But were do I start? Do I change grind? Do I keep working on one profile to dial that in or try several to what works best? All tips, pointers and links welcome. Thanks. Simon Keeping this separate from the Minima thread as thought this was wider than that machine?

@"simonc"#p14138 the thing to do now is to create a profile, the adjust the grind slightly to make it work.

@"simonc"#p14138 You just jumped into a rabbit hole of possibilities. General rule of thumb is that once you release the pressure to the max you should get 1 to 1.5 gram per second (g/s) into the cup. Adjust your grind to that each time and you should be fine. One of the best profiles to test is the lever profile: 1. 2-3 bar initially for 10 to 30 seconds to wet the puck (Should have no drops into the cup if you grind fine enough). 2. Once you register 1-2g of espresso into the cup you release the full 9 bar. Take note of the preinfusion time. 3. Last 30% you drop it down to 4-6 bar. Thats my usual profile. Also, Go crazy. Try crazy profiles. There was one Ethiopian coffee that tasted like lemon juice and tried one of those 2 mins extraction profiles (low Pressure through out) and it went full smokey. Just go crazy and find your inner glee in discovering.

> @"Otaibimn"#p14147 General rule of thumb is that once you release the pressure to the max you should get 1 to 1.5 gram per second (g/s) into the cup. Not heard this before. I'd think it is yield dependent. What is it based on? @"simonc"#435 Experiment. You can try a lot of different things. I personally didn't like shots with prolonged pre-infusion, at last not at very low pressure (below 2.5 bar)….admittedly I didn't try to keep the pressure lower. Rao's "blooming espresso" is well worth a try, had some very good results with that and similar profiles. The most common use for me is slowing the ramp up a bit and then tailing off the flow as the shot speeds up to keep it running at an even rate.

I used the 1g per second from when i had my londinium l1. With the bianca, i would set the paddle at 7pm, wait till first drips then fully open, 5 seconds or so then slowly come back down till i got to 4bar ish. Other times id set it at 6 and pull a full shot around 6 bar haha, theres really no right way, just play

Cheers all. Yes I can see this being a long journey. Currently pondering it over a flat white. Below is the shot profile I just made as standard. With the Minima it's already a slowish preinfusuon. 10 seconds at 2bar ish then slowly ramps to 9 bar over next 5 seconds. @"Otaibimn"#p14147 it hits 3.5 g/s at full flow for a 38g shot. Did you mean I should constrict that to lower or you don't expect my machine to do more than that? [URL=https://i.imgur.com/shttQj0.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/shttQj0.png[/IMG][/URL] Chart started when I pressed the switch, and turned off at 30seconds, with 38g in the cup, it dripped out a few more seconds.

This was me running with empty portafilter into a jug to monitor flow rate. I went from 3, fully open through to 5,6,7 and at 50 seconds I moved to 4 which did drop flow a bit but then it moved back up. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/nvTuLM5.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/nvTuLM5.png[/IMG][/URL] Then I ran again, starting at 4, which was still 5g/s flow until I moved to 3 at 35 seconds which pretty much closed off the flow, but not entirely. Is there an issue with the flow device? Should I clean, adjust so it gives a better control. This doesn't appear right. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/Qmq6C7u.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Qmq6C7u.png[/IMG][/URL]

so fully open, how much liquid weight do you get in 30s is it 160g?

@"DavecUK"#p14213 Top chart was effectively fully open (ie flow rate didnt dip much under 5 g/s so was 297g in 65 seconds from switch on, but obviously pre infusion ramp up was in there too. Is there a case for adjusting the grub screw and turning the paddle so it stops all flow at 9, although still not sure why there isn't a more gradual reduction of flow. it seems to be 1 g/s at 9, and then 5 g/s at 7-8 and rest of the way round. edit just realised I can flip the axis on the chart. It was 130g in first 30 seconds running at fully open from switched on.

> @"simonc"#p14214 edit just realised I can flip the axis on the chart. It was 130g in first 30 seconds running at fully open from switched on. OK well to produce a 35g espresso shot from 18g of coffee uses approximately 80ml, so you should have plenty in hand. All this talk of 1 to 9 is confusing me…where is this coming from are there marks on the paddle system? The paddle is a non linear device, it's not a needle jet (which could still be non linear). It is a straight pin….if closed isn't really closed, the pin may not withdraw sufficiently to maximise the flow when fully open.

@"DavecUK"#p14215 Sorry.. I meant 3 o'clock is fully open, and 9 o'clock is fully closed. Yes, agree I can make a reasonable shot of espresso in 30 seconds, that is not a problem. Its more being able to restrict the flow in a controlled way, and doing more than just doing 2 bar (at full left, it 9 o'clock) or 9 bar at any other setting. For instance I dont appear to be able to hold it at 5 bar.

Flow profiling

DavecUK

simonc just doesn’t work if the low water sensor doesn’t detect the tank it empty! Not your fault, I’ll open the case soon.

Of course not, the whole system relies on the water level being detected at the right time…does your’s have a little float on a tube with wires going into the tank?

Frothbewithyou

DavecUK This has always baffled me from the outside looking in. Hopefully ECM are receptive to this advice as it would be a great change.

DavecUK

Frothbewithyou You mean the reset and advanced settings thing? If so yeah, has irritated me for almost 20 years.

Frothbewithyou

DavecUK Yeah so purely from a gadget space as I don’t own one the touchscreen and menu navigation on alot of the high-end machines is less advanced than my amazon special auto pet feeder 🤣

This seems like especially as you’ve said having been in this for 20 years must be very annoying.

Alexvs

I’ve been doing a bit more testing with my morning drinks and have so far found grinding a notch finer, in my case 9 instead of 10, works for profiling. I’ve not yet got the hang of it though and still need to work out where in the rotation is enough for low flow. At the moment it seems like half way is where pressure starts building, anything below wasn’t really doing anything. I’ve only tried twice but been trying to hold the pressure around 2 bar for an extended period and then ramping up to 9 bar or whatever it goes to when fully open. I have also noticed I now have a bit more stability when fully open as normally it shoots up to 9.5/10 and then slowly descends as the puck develops. After extending the 2 bar period, it now sits at the top end which is around 9 bar consistently.

I’m enjoying this new learning phase, just need to tweak my paddle/needle I feel as it’s nowhere near as sensitive as in Dave’s video. The previous owner fitted it and I’ve only tightened to close off the flow correctly. When I get a chance I’ll take a video of the flow I get through the rotation.

DavecUK

Alexvs My stuff always seems to be sprinkled with fairy dust….just lucky in that area I guess.

simonc

Alexvs same to all that. I’m wondering if mine’s previous owner didn’t know about @DavecUK ’s excellent videos and maybe I’ll take it out and refit, just to satisfy myself it’s in right.

simonc

Alexvs I can highly recommend taking the needle out, checki g or replacing washers, greasing and setting back up per Dave’s video. Mine is much more responsive now and I can slowly control the water flow all the way up and down.

Held just open at 3g/s at start and could slow to 2, then from wide open could slowly reduce flow. Now to see how that applies to pressure tomorrow!

DavecUK

simonc You can lube it at the time… 👍

simonc

First test this morning with the cleaned and greased flow kit with new washers and it now works just as Dave’s video. Now to practise a bit more! A relief it just needed a clean.

Alexvs

simonc Thanks mate, not great at the hands on stuff but will try when I get a chance as currently even at full flow I don’t feel like I’m getting enough through, so must be a set up or wear issue like you found.

simonc

Alexvs I got enough through but just no control. Could be you have slight obstruction? It’s a simple process with Dave’s video just make sure you have a 7mm socket to remove the gicleur.

Alexvs

simonc Well by enough I mean not quite free flowing like Dave’s video, however clearly it’s enough to make a coffee as get consistent pressure when fully open.

Glad to hear it’s simple enough, will check my tools and make sure I have what’s needed, will just need to wrap something round my wrench not to mark the nut as don’t have any special tools.

simonc

Alexvs I just used electrical tape and per WLL a cloth over front of machine for any slips. Go easy and use both hands and you will be fine. Good to know how it works.

Rob1

Alexvs I attempted one this morning and was able to restrict it to 2 bar but after increasing it only went up to 8 bar, which tells me that I need to grind finer,

Remember the principles haven’t changed. Changing grind setting will increase or decrease the extraction, along with changing the ratio…..if your grind setting was the same as before, and you were getting a higher flow rate, logically the extraction was more efficient. You might be able to grind finer, but you absolutely don’t have to, not unless your shots were under extracted before.

Also worth mentioning, not all coffee will benefit from this type of profiling. For some you wouldn’t necessarily want a high EY.

Alexvs

So, I had a crack, found the box that the old owner gave me which had the spare washers. After removing the needle, there was a little something green at the bottom of the thread and black grease around the washers. Wiped it all down and regreased, the washers were perfectly fine but just swapped out the top white one as was a little out of shape. The initial empty group test looked good, so looking forward to having a play in the morning.

Rob1 Thanks Rob, I’ll keep this in mind as not sure I’ve mastered the extraction yet but good to know if I’ve got it right already, I don’t need to necessarily adjust for the profiled shot.

dutchy101

So I’ve finally fitted the Coffee Sensor E61 flow control device to my Minima.

@Cuprajake I think this is the same one you had. Am I correct in thinking all I needed to do was to remove and replace the upper sleeve with the already assembled one that came with the kit (with a bit of Molykote on the O rings) and then pick which flow control handle you want to use?

There are other bits that came with the kit, but I don’t think I need them (in the bag in the photo below). Having said that, the flow control handle does not seem to have anywhere near as much control as I have seen in yours and Dave’s videos. Can it take a little while to bed in, or have I perhaps not installed correctly?

I am grinding coffee to the same settings as dialled in before installing the kit - should I need to change my grind at all?

Cuprajake

yeah, you dont need the spring as you have a solenoid group,

quick vid of just using it to flush would be good, iirc i had mine set just off fully closed tight, the lelit paddle has a shorter through than the coffee sensor one but its still fine,

Cuprajake

Flow rates so far.

¼ = 0.7ml per second

½ = 2.6ml per second

¾ = 3.9ml per second

1 = 4.5ml per second

2mins in

dutchy101

Cheers Jake - the flow does not seem to stop when I close the valve up but it seems to be speding up and slowing down correctly. Could just be I need some practice with it

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