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  • Paper filter at the bottom of your portafilter?

thusband Maybe I’ll pick up some of those Cafelat paper filters and give it a try

I understand that the Cafelat papers are considerably smaller than the 58.5 mm size of my VST basket. I saw another brand through google search, but they wanted $35US for 200 papers including a nice holder. Plus shipping. So I passed. I also saw reference to some kind of a cutter ….

Still wondering why I got that terrible distribution and awful sour taste from paper on the top of the basket. Will try out my Normcore screen today or tomorrow.

    I guess when putting a paper disc at the bottom I’ll have to be careful when using my WDT tool.

      thusband OK good, I thought it might grab the paper and pull it up.

      It did that to me the first time I tried WDT with a bottom paper filter. Since then, I’ve been more careful.

        Tried paper a few times, in the end too much messing about for me,

        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

          Cuprajake Yeah, I suspect that will be my end result too but it’s fun trying out new stuff and who knows.

            Yeah I like the idea of it as in it will keep excess fines out

            But when ims e&b super fine baskets exist the paper kinda becomes irrelevant

            It’s only for the fact they don’t make a 54mm version that I still don’t use one, if I moved back to 58mm I’d be back using one tomorrow

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

            A theory for why paper filters below the puck are good is that they aid even flow and reduce channels, allowing you to grind finer and in general, boost overall extraction. As with other elements of espresso prep it’s down to how much of a problem you had before and if you can be bothered with the extra steps.

            It’s not too much of an inconvenience for me and I find along with a top shower screen it aids cleanup by compressing the puck, but I understand it’s not for everyone especially those who enjoy darker roasts where it’s less effort to get the most out of them. For those interested, make sure the paper filter is not larger than the bottom of the basket and crawling up the sides as I’ve seen some YouTubers do. For ideal evenness it needs to cover the holes of the basket and not substantially more and it needs to be wet, but I’d suspect a roughly fitting dry paper filter would still outperform none in terms of squeezing the most extraction out.

            What I found interesting about the new Wafo baskets is that from their testing, they said their basket boosted comparable performance to other precision baskets with a bottom filter. So they’re really offering convenience rather than an improvement on the combo.

              I’ve tried the Normcore metal screen on top and wetted/paper towel dried paper on bottom combo four times now. On each occasion the shots ran considerably (about 10 seconds) faster than without the screen/filter combo. And the shots tasted thinner (less body), with less strength, less flavour, less complexity and less length. Overall, a significant decline in taste.

              I’ve watched a couple of review videos. One says that water creeps in at the edge of the paper and then along the underside of the paper, so you have to grind finer, which is a good thing???? That’s nuts, as why would I want water not flowing through the puck? If that is even happening. From a pundit whose YouTube name begins with Sprot…

              Another pundit doses a gram lower (17g) vs 18g normally, I presume to recover the headroom lost by the screen.

              I am surprised that the shots run faster. Any ideas why? I can/will try grinding finer.

              The pucks look great, but the coffee tastes like sh…

              I am pouring my usual City Roast decaf blend of Hawaiian Kona and Espresso.

                FadedFrontiers they add resistance and aid even flow, allowing you to grind Finer.

                Thanks for the link, which I will carefully read.

                I am confused by the statement that it increases resistance, which allows you to grind finer. If the paper increases resistance, then it slows the flow. If you wish to maintain the same shot time, you must grind coarser, right? Am I missing something here?

                Instead, I suppose that (theoretically) the increased resistance is slowing the flow and thereby increasing the contact time with the grinds, leading to greater extraction. Except that I am experiencing faster flows and significant declines in taste.

                    JHCCoffee

                    JHCCoffee On each occasion the shots ran considerably (about 10 seconds) faster than without the screen/filter combo. And the shots tasted thinner (less body), with less strength, less flavour, less complexity and less length. Overall, a significant decline in taste.

                    FYI, these were 4 sets of paired shots. Same everything except the screen and paper. One shot with, one without.

                        JHCCoffee

                        Apologies, the grinding finer allows more resistance not the paper screen in itself. I’ll edit my post as that was confusingly worded.

                        In short your faster shot time is to do with basket geometry where the holes don’t all go out to the edge, so water at the edges need to move down then horizontally to get out. Water travels through wet paper more easily so it’s a more effective exit route and thus quicker than without paper filter at the bottom.

                        I’d recommend this video where the author explains it far better than I can:

                            FadedFrontiers Apologies, the grinding finer allows more resistance not the paper screen in itself. I’ll edit my post as that was confusingly worded.

                            No worries at all; thanks for the post.

                            FadedFrontiers In short your faster shot time is to do with basket geometry where the holes don’t all go out to the edge, so water at the edges need to move down then horizontally to get out. Water travels through wet paper more easily so it’s a more effective exit route and thus quicker than without paper filter at the bottom.

                            If this is the case, then some water is apparently travelling down the sides of the basket (as distinct from through the puck), due to the increased resistance of the paper. This water then travels either through the wet paper, or along the base of the paper, and then out. If this is true, then the brew output is being diluted by water, which is why my espresso tastes weaker. Grinding finer would then be a “kludge fix” to solve a problem caused by the paper. We might then end up with grounds that are ground too fine, to correct a problem that we shouldn’t have had in the first place.

                            Taste is the ultimate arbiter. So I will try grinding finer.

                            However I grow weary of hopping on the bandwagon of the latest greatest thing promoted by coffee pundits. YouTube seems to have accelerated this trend.

                                  JHCCoffee no water is not bypassing your coffee grounds, it’s still going through your coffee grounds to get to the filter at the bottom. It tastes weaker because it requires more puck resistance, the same logic behind why you need to grind finer with precision baskets than with regular ones. The paper filter isn’t creating the problem, the basket design is, which funnels water through the middle rather than the entire bottom surface.

                                  The idea is that water will take the shortest and easiest route to get out, either to a filter directly below the coffee puck then out of the basket’s holes (after extracting more of the puck first) or alternatively straight to the holes that surround some but not all of the basket in the middle, bypassing some of the edges of the puck in the process.

                                  I don’t think this is a YouTube bandwagon as it was something Decent espresso/Home Barista forum users experimented with first. While I shared your scepticism I was won over by the research that shows higher and more even extractions. Again not for everyone as you need to find what suits you, I think this favours lighter roasts that are inherently harder to get more out of anyway.

                                      FadedFrontiers

                                      Good points Fadingfrontier! And the article was an excellent read. I will look into the paper filter that he suggests.

                                      His use of the Weber cup is also interesting, though maybe overkill and to much pfaf for the last tiny bit of potential extraction. Let me see: 1. the paper bit (including 2. the paper wetting). 3. Grind into Weber cup. 4. Wdt, 5. Twirl the knob thing while pouring into the basket 6. WDT again. 7. Put the screen on top. 8. Pour the shot. 9. Dump and fish out the screen. 10. Remove the paper. 11. Dance a little dance, genuflect and pray that the shot tastes better than if you just ground into the PF, WDT’d and poured. 🕺💃🧎‍♀️🧎🙏☕️

                                          JHCCoffee I think you forgot a couple of steps:

                                          7a. Draw pentacle with machine at centre, using blood of a virgin. Male if light roast, female if dark roast.
                                          7b. Light 5 black candles at the pentacle corners
                                          7c. Recite incantation to the gods of extraction

                                          😉

                                          (I honestly cannot see the point of the multiple WDT and twirling - the amount of clumping will be the same if one ‘adequate’ WDT pass is done once the grounds are in the basket; on the other hand, more WDT means more oxygen gets in contact with the grounds)

                                            FadedFrontiers So they’re really offering convenience rather than an improvement on the combo.

                                            100% agree. And ar US$200 a basket, I may stick to paper for a while yet.😀