Anybody use a circular paper filter in the bottom of your portafilter when making espresso? Does it improve your shots and where do you get the filters? Aeropress filters are too big. Do you make your own? I just got through watching a James Hoffmann video and was a little surprised to see him using one.

After watching the video I had a go a couple of times with some I cut out of a chemex paper with scissors. The shot ran a bit quicker, and it might have been a touch cleaner, but I like decent body and didn’t think the difference was worth the extra step.

Cafelat sell the papers, they fit perfectly. I’ve been messing around - one on top, one on bottom, both. I can taste any difference. Also, people mention the shot runs faster, but I don’t experience that. Possibly one of my failed going down the wormhole experiments

@"hornbyben"#p15388 Yeah, I might try it but I'm pretty satisfied with what I get from my Bianca (most of the time). What's made a difference lately is a new WDT tool.

The super fine eb baskets are good for a clean cup

I'd rather not filter out some of the goodness !

@"Cuprajake"#p15413 Haven't heard of those. They look interesting. Thanks.

@"hornbyben"#p15388 I’ve got exactly the same results and conclusion haha

Tried 2 shots with a cut to size Aeropress filter, that I wetted and then paper towel dried. Put the filter on top of the puck. First shot had bottomless PF squirts (haven’t had that issue for ages) and tasted terrible (awfully sour). Second shot had somewhat better flow, but tasted equally bad. Not interested in placing one on the bottom of the PF, as I do not wish to filter out body or flavor. I have no plans to bother with that again. I did however just receive a Normcore filter, and will give it a brief whirl before it probably collects dust in the discarded espresso accessory box.

I like it. I do use it from time to time. But what I do is to simple cut a batch of aeropress papers to size.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p32567 Top or bottom of the puck? Not sure why I got that immediately pour distribution and sourness, when placing the cut Aeropress paper at the top of the puck?

Paper filter at the bottom of your portafilter?

tompoland

thusband you’ll feel the needles scraathing the paper lightly but other than that it works fine.

thusband

tompoland OK good, I thought it might grab the paper and pull it up.

mathof2

thusband OK good, I thought it might grab the paper and pull it up.

It did that to me the first time I tried WDT with a bottom paper filter. Since then, I’ve been more careful.

Cuprajake

Tried paper a few times, in the end too much messing about for me,

thusband

Cuprajake Yeah, I suspect that will be my end result too but it’s fun trying out new stuff and who knows.

Cuprajake

Yeah I like the idea of it as in it will keep excess fines out

But when ims e&b super fine baskets exist the paper kinda becomes irrelevant

It’s only for the fact they don’t make a 54mm version that I still don’t use one, if I moved back to 58mm I’d be back using one tomorrow

FadedFrontiers

A theory for why paper filters below the puck are good is that they aid even flow and reduce channels, allowing you to grind finer and in general, boost overall extraction. As with other elements of espresso prep it’s down to how much of a problem you had before and if you can be bothered with the extra steps.

It’s not too much of an inconvenience for me and I find along with a top shower screen it aids cleanup by compressing the puck, but I understand it’s not for everyone especially those who enjoy darker roasts where it’s less effort to get the most out of them. For those interested, make sure the paper filter is not larger than the bottom of the basket and crawling up the sides as I’ve seen some YouTubers do. For ideal evenness it needs to cover the holes of the basket and not substantially more and it needs to be wet, but I’d suspect a roughly fitting dry paper filter would still outperform none in terms of squeezing the most extraction out.

What I found interesting about the new Wafo baskets is that from their testing, they said their basket boosted comparable performance to other precision baskets with a bottom filter. So they’re really offering convenience rather than an improvement on the combo.

JHCCoffee

FadedFrontiers they add resistance and aid even flow, allowing you to grind Finer.

Thanks for the link, which I will carefully read.

I am confused by the statement that it increases resistance, which allows you to grind finer. If the paper increases resistance, then it slows the flow. If you wish to maintain the same shot time, you must grind coarser, right? Am I missing something here?

Instead, I suppose that (theoretically) the increased resistance is slowing the flow and thereby increasing the contact time with the grinds, leading to greater extraction. Except that I am experiencing faster flows and significant declines in taste.

tompoland

FadedFrontiers So they’re really offering convenience rather than an improvement on the combo.

100% agree. And ar US$200 a basket, I may stick to paper for a while yet.😀

JHCCoffee

I’ve tried the Normcore metal screen on top and wetted/paper towel dried paper on bottom combo four times now. On each occasion the shots ran considerably (about 10 seconds) faster than without the screen/filter combo. And the shots tasted thinner (less body), with less strength, less flavour, less complexity and less length. Overall, a significant decline in taste.

I’ve watched a couple of review videos. One says that water creeps in at the edge of the paper and then along the underside of the paper, so you have to grind finer, which is a good thing???? That’s nuts, as why would I want water not flowing through the puck? If that is even happening. From a pundit whose YouTube name begins with Sprot…

Another pundit doses a gram lower (17g) vs 18g normally, I presume to recover the headroom lost by the screen.

I am surprised that the shots run faster. Any ideas why? I can/will try grinding finer.

The pucks look great, but the coffee tastes like sh…

I am pouring my usual City Roast decaf blend of Hawaiian Kona and Espresso.

JHCCoffee

JHCCoffee On each occasion the shots ran considerably (about 10 seconds) faster than without the screen/filter combo. And the shots tasted thinner (less body), with less strength, less flavour, less complexity and less length. Overall, a significant decline in taste.

FYI, these were 4 sets of paired shots. Same everything except the screen and paper. One shot with, one without.

FadedFrontiers

JHCCoffee

Apologies, the grinding finer allows more resistance not the paper screen in itself. I’ll edit my post as that was confusingly worded.

In short your faster shot time is to do with basket geometry where the holes don’t all go out to the edge, so water at the edges need to move down then horizontally to get out. Water travels through wet paper more easily so it’s a more effective exit route and thus quicker than without paper filter at the bottom.

I’d recommend this video where the author explains it far better than I can:

JHCCoffee

FadedFrontiers Apologies, the grinding finer allows more resistance not the paper screen in itself. I’ll edit my post as that was confusingly worded.

No worries at all; thanks for the post.

FadedFrontiers In short your faster shot time is to do with basket geometry where the holes don’t all go out to the edge, so water at the edges need to move down then horizontally to get out. Water travels through wet paper more easily so it’s a more effective exit route and thus quicker than without paper filter at the bottom.

If this is the case, then some water is apparently travelling down the sides of the basket (as distinct from through the puck), due to the increased resistance of the paper. This water then travels either through the wet paper, or along the base of the paper, and then out. If this is true, then the brew output is being diluted by water, which is why my espresso tastes weaker. Grinding finer would then be a “kludge fix” to solve a problem caused by the paper. We might then end up with grounds that are ground too fine, to correct a problem that we shouldn’t have had in the first place.

Taste is the ultimate arbiter. So I will try grinding finer.

However I grow weary of hopping on the bandwagon of the latest greatest thing promoted by coffee pundits. YouTube seems to have accelerated this trend.

FadedFrontiers

JHCCoffee no water is not bypassing your coffee grounds, it’s still going through your coffee grounds to get to the filter at the bottom. It tastes weaker because it requires more puck resistance, the same logic behind why you need to grind finer with precision baskets than with regular ones. The paper filter isn’t creating the problem, the basket design is, which funnels water through the middle rather than the entire bottom surface.

The idea is that water will take the shortest and easiest route to get out, either to a filter directly below the coffee puck then out of the basket’s holes (after extracting more of the puck first) or alternatively straight to the holes that surround some but not all of the basket in the middle, bypassing some of the edges of the puck in the process.

I don’t think this is a YouTube bandwagon as it was something Decent espresso/Home Barista forum users experimented with first. While I shared your scepticism I was won over by the research that shows higher and more even extractions. Again not for everyone as you need to find what suits you, I think this favours lighter roasts that are inherently harder to get more out of anyway.

JHCCoffee

FadedFrontiers

Good points Fadingfrontier! And the article was an excellent read. I will look into the paper filter that he suggests.

His use of the Weber cup is also interesting, though maybe overkill and to much pfaf for the last tiny bit of potential extraction. Let me see: 1. the paper bit (including 2. the paper wetting). 3. Grind into Weber cup. 4. Wdt, 5. Twirl the knob thing while pouring into the basket 6. WDT again. 7. Put the screen on top. 8. Pour the shot. 9. Dump and fish out the screen. 10. Remove the paper. 11. Dance a little dance, genuflect and pray that the shot tastes better than if you just ground into the PF, WDT’d and poured. 🕺💃🧎‍♀️🧎🙏☕️

CoyoteOldMan

JHCCoffee I think you forgot a couple of steps:

7a. Draw pentacle with machine at centre, using blood of a virgin. Male if light roast, female if dark roast.
7b. Light 5 black candles at the pentacle corners
7c. Recite incantation to the gods of extraction

😉

(I honestly cannot see the point of the multiple WDT and twirling - the amount of clumping will be the same if one ‘adequate’ WDT pass is done once the grounds are in the basket; on the other hand, more WDT means more oxygen gets in contact with the grounds)

Cuprajake

What you need is a uni filter 🤯

I think we’re getting to a point now where we go way ott

Grinders that go way above and beyond so we have to then add something to change the shot back to what it was.

Are we getting back to the confirmation bias thing again?

For me Ive seen people use paper. I tried it, it was a pita as was the custom £30 mesh screen I bought. Not used it since.

If people like to do it, and it’s part of their routine fair do, but alot of people just copy to be one of the cool kids…..

FadedFrontiers

Yeah it’s all totally over the top and I bet that it’ll get all the more popular, at least until things like the Unifilter, Wafo baskets and the like are far cheaper.

WDT was looked at with the exact same scepticism but I’d guess that lots if not most on here now WDT or do some sort of distribution, which is a lot more effort, with greater cost and more negligible results than putting a paper filter in your basket.

It’s always up to how much effort you want to put in, but this seems both easier and a lot cheaper than a lot of other steps and accessories that are more popular and part of the espresso orthodoxy now.

CoyoteOldMan

FadedFrontiers WDT or do some sort of distribution, which is a lot more effort, with greater cost and more negligible results than putting a paper filter in your basket.

I must be doing WDT wrong, then - it takes me about 10 seconds, and it cost me £3.50 incl. P&P for 10 0.35 mm needles (5 of which were given to a fellow Coffeetimer) - lasting a lifetime. Cork was ‘free’ with the bottle 😁

Since I don’t brew filter, I’d need to buy filter paper ex-novo and cut it to fit a 54 mm filter. Not sure it’s cheaper, faster or easier, especially for someone fairly goofy with scissors (left-hander in a right-handed world). Horses for courses, I guess. 🤷‍♂️

FadedFrontiers

CoyoteOldMan as it makes you happy, it doesn’t matter if you’re not raking the espresso zen garden for long enough to make a difference to shot quality 😆

I had aeropress filters lying around, as a fellow lefty I managed to cut one just about to an acceptable standard and will give it a rinse after I’m done so it’s ready to be reused next time. So I guess that’s £0 and under 10 seconds every time. 🙀

But as I said, totally get it’s not for everyone, I just find it slightly odd that people seem to draw the line at a paper filter which has more evidence of improving shot quality than half the espresso fads people get into.

CoyoteOldMan

FadedFrontiers it doesn’t matter if you’re not raking the espresso zen garden for long enough to make a difference to shot quality

That’s the only thing I would disagree with. 10 seconds are ample for distributing the grounds very uniformly in the basket. And compared to simply tamping what comes out of the grinder, it makes a heck of a difference to shot quality - a reliably good extraction vs. a 5 seconds gusher.

My ASD self would question some other of the assertions you make, but… as I said, horses for courses.

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