Profitec 400

Rolo

Hi
anyone know much about the new HX machine from Profitec, the 400 and how it might compare to a Rocket Appartamento?

DavecUK

Rolo Yes, saw one and had some drinks from one when I visited ECM. There is absolutely no comparison to a Rocket Appartamento in build quality and shot quality. The Profitec being better in both respects.

You have a switch underneath where you can switch to one of 3 temperatures for espresso, no flushing, little flush better steam, normal flush, maximal steam.

Doram

DavecUK You have a switch underneath where you can switch to one of 3 temperatures for espresso, no flushing, little flush better steam, normal flush, maximal steam.

On first look I thought this was the Profitec version (so as not to say rip-off) of the Mara X, with the same size and the 3 pre-set temp switch. However, after looking at the product page and this video, I didn’t see any mention to suggest that it has something similar to the cleverness of Mara X: giving priority to the brew over steam temp and achieving it with a second PID in the HX and some smart programming. Instead it just has three set temps for the steam, which in turn will affect the brew temp (so a standard HX with 3 steam temperatures?). It also doesn’t have the steam boost, because as a standard HX it’s always ready to steam?

I have to say I got quite excited about the machine initially, but after looking at the page and video it seems they are mostly proud of the changeable discs for the steam and water knobs. While this may be a nice design touch, it’s hardly a revolution in espresso, is it?

@DavecUK - am I missing something?

Rolo

Thank you Dave. I’m also considering the Lelit Mara x v2. Any thoughts on that?

DavecUK

Rolo Another excellent machine, with the software changes I asked for after the V1 was launched and I realised I would never use pure HX mode. So an espresso only mode and a better steam boost mode made more sense.

uses some slightly cleverer (patented) technology to achieve it’s objective. However buy whichever of the two your heart draws you to.

Rolo

I think my heart draws me to the Profitec, I do like their design and build quality. I’m not so sure about the Lelit in terms of reliability and build

CoyoteOldMan

Rolo I think my heart draws me to the Profitec, I do like their design and build quality.

This sounds like heart and mind are quite well aligned…

fwx

Rolo Hello, have you bought Profitec Pro 400? Just for interest, since I have not made a choice between marax and pro 400.

Evergreen88

What is preinfusion on/off and how does it relate to the mechanical preinfusion of the e61 group?

DavecUK

Evergreen88 What is preinfusion on/off and how does it relate to the mechanical

E61 group has small 10 ml ish chamber that opens at 4 bar and fills, almost instantly with a rotary pumped machine and quickly (1 sec ish) with a vibe pump machine. Pausing the pressure rise briefly to max as it fills.

Other designs on the machines mentioned, simply start, then stop the pump for a time (usually configurable), before restarting it, without opening the vent valve. I tend to call this a bloom phase rather than preinfusion, as there is no extra pressure being applied, only what remains in the group, if any.

Evergreen88

DavecUK thanks for the explaination, I wonder if the profitec 400 has a configurable preinfusion/blooming phase but I doubt as it seems to be a simple on/off switch.

DavecUK

Evergreen88 I don’t believe so as it uses an E61 group, with a simple control system. The pump could still be paused by software, but I don’t remember it having that ability or any way to program it by the user.

LMSC

fwx Welcome to the forum!

Could you tell us a little more about what your current set up is; then, number of coffees - black, milk based; your grinder; your water situation l; and l, finally budget.

@MediumRoastSteam is your man for both machines.

Rolo

fwx
I have ordered a Profitec Pro 400. I have used a couple of ECM machines before and I have a friend who has a 500. The build quality and ease of use to work on swayed it for me. For my investment I prioritise durability and reliability.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC MediumRoastSteam is your man for both machines.

You must be getting confused. I don’t have nor ever owned either machines!

fwx

LMSC I used my roommate’s sage pro grinder and Delonghi Dedica. I have considered buying my own for a long time. Most of the time, milk-based 2-3 cups a day. Recently bought a DF 64 due to a discount, and find Dedica does not work so well for finer espresso powder…. I am based in a hard water area. Budget for the machine: about 1200 pounds.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I have seen, over the last 1.5 years, you don’t need to own a machine! 😊

@fwx I have never used either of them. But, I know based on members experience, Mara X is a lovely machine. You have a decent grinder. With your budget, you can buy Liz, a nice and a compact DB. If you can stretch a little, ACS Minima from ACS direct. I do not know if the prices of the machines have gone up because of supply side bottlenecks.

Please read the threads on ACS Minima. MediumRoastSteam does own Liz.

Your water is no good. You can go the mineralised RO or distilled. There is a thread on Scuma RO. Please head there and message the owner as there is a good deal going on. You may benefit from that. Another choice is getting a zero water jug and mineralise it.

SurreyAlan

There is a review on YouTube but it’s in German, however, they do take the cover off and it looks very well designed, well made and a bit better put together than the Mara X but then it is £200 or 20% dearer. The manual is available on the Profitec web site and indicates a 15 minute warm up. The Mara X seems to have videos on how to fix almost everything not sure if that’s a good or a bad thing. If the 400 works like the Mara X and doesn’t involve lots of flushing or waiting for temperatures then I’d happily pay the extra. Not sure about the coloured disks though. Waiting for some reviews and surprised none seem to be available now it’s here to buy. Feet that won’t gouge the worktop are a big plus.

Jcheney

Doram

While I can’t add anything else. I too came to the same conclusion as you. The Profitec 400 is a technically worse version of the 500, but what it has compared to the 500 are the size of the MaraX, a price tag nearer to the MaraX, and coloured discs.

I think the 400 can’t have MaraX like features as that would make it eat up the (more expensive) 500 series sales… Got to keep those product tiers and differentiation.

MediumRoastSteam

Time to ditch the Pro-500, or modernise it.

fwx

MediumRoastSteam I also considered pro 500 before, but anyhow it is not right for me.