Review by Lance Hedrick, if any one is interested in. https://youtu.be/PBn223u7w2s

I agree with what he says, and that's what I find too. I prefer my mazzer, the niche works well for the Mrs milk drinks

@"Cuprajake"#p18736 Yeah! I saw your comment on his channel Jake! I can’t jusge as I am still a manual guy. Have been resisting to grab a Niche for > 1 year as it is another conical, though 64 mm. I am not sure it will make a huge difference to the cup compared what we have at home, except it is a massive convenience and a great workflow. I like medium to light roast and don’t mind medium dark for milk based. Brewing is very important for me. I would like an electrical flat; I still like my JX as it produces great shots, although it is a little boring to grind these days 🤣

Thanks for heads up.. A really well balanced review for sure. No big surprises perhaps, at least not for me. I had a Niche last year and sold it after a few months but was a little regretful. When a near new one came up for sale ast month, I pounced. It is such a charmer of a grinder. Small footprint, low height compared to everything else on my espresso island, easy and simple and certainly low retention. And in the cup, thickish and tasty for medium to dark espresso. Once I have the 83mm conical burr Livi seasoned I'll do a back to back comparison with the Niches 63mm conicals but with my indelicate taste buds I doubt that I'll be able to taste the difference.

That seems to be a reasonable review for his taste profile. I've only pulled maybe 25 shots with the Niche at work and 10 or so with grounds transported home from work. It is easy to dial in and make a tasty shot. In a perfect world I'd have a Niche and something with big flat burrs. I'm a sucker for berry / fruit flavor.. 98% of drinks are straight shots. Wifey drinks iced lattes.

Quite fair review. It’s funny how careful he speaks to not upset the Niche fanboyz.

He could have used any coffee in the world to pull his shot on, and he chooses a lightly roasted bean.......god, he woffles on and on! I emailed him a couple of times and he really tried to stress that he had no financial arrangement with any coffee equipment manufacturer........yea right

I do think he gave a balanced opinion, did not come out offending any one, appreciated the other coffee gurus really like them and so on. He didn’t say anything new, IMO. I thought he said it doesn’t work for him. Though he said it’s not conical vs flat, it is indeed that as he wanted clarity. As far as a light roast is concerned, I guess he used it to drive home his point as he seems to prefer light stuffs.

Not watched it all yet, but at the beginning he says the price has gone up and up - has it? I thought it had always been the same?

Price hasn't changed it will be exchange rates and import It's just a fancy way of saying he likes a different flavour profile, but and a big but thes a content creator and so far I have seen threads on 2 forums discussing his vid. Shock horror. It's spromethues all over again. There's nothing new to what he says, he's basically just describing the niche. 🤷🤷🤷

@"Cuprajake"#p18757 I take all this on board about impartiality, but if that is the case, why was there so much factually incorrect stuff? He is a poor Youtube influencer, claiming independence, heavily promoting Sage gear. In fact he went to OZ recently to review something for Sage.....wonder who paid for that trip? I wonder if his YT channel is monetised? If not, how does he make a living?

Niche Zero - One Year in Review

Grahamsphillips

Yeah. I saw that. It would be interesting to do a comparison with flat burrs. Tricked out DF64 vs Niche maybe? Sprometheus upgraded from a Niche to a Lagom p64 and seems happy.

MWJB

Grahamsphillips It would be interesting to do a comparison with flat burrs. Tricked out DF64 vs Niche maybe?

Why does the DF64 need to be tricked out before comparison with the Niche?

Grahamsphillips

MWJB A tricked out DF64 ends up costing the same as a Niche - and if you prefer the flat burr taste?

LMSC

DavecUK Nice and short! Not surprising what a blind test could do. They thought the Key gave them clarity, while it was actually the Niche. It goes to show how opinions can change in an unbiased environment; also, muddled, clarity, etc are probably in the mind of the reviewer based on how they want to look at it!

DavecUK

LMSC Yes I found it interesting as well.

Eiffel

(Disclaimer: I’m a satisfied Niche user)

I think we should see all the above videos as entertainment, and likely the tip of the iceberg of some commercial interests (from either the video producers or some equipment manufacturers). Basing purchasing decisions on a very small sample of tasting experiences from one or two people doesn’t seem that reliable an indicator for our purchasing decisions. There are many other factors potentially at play here.

There does seem to be a threshold below which workflow, taste and customer satisfaction is relatively poor, but it seems that it gets quite subjective above this (even some of the usual recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt, as they are hints which do not always apply - see for instance the recommendations for temperature and roast levels)

MWJB

Eiffel The trouble is the Youtuber’s don’t discuss reasonable alternatives. Hoffmann says he was spoiled by the EG-1, fair enough, but it’s several times the price. Likewise Lance & his Bentwood. Comparing the Niche to a behemoth like the Ditting isn’t realistic. Many of these guys have commercial equipment at their place of work as their datums, they’re not really “customers”.

Anyone who has the money & desire for these grinders (Ditting, Weber, Bentwood) isn’t likely to be in the market for a Niche.

MWJB

Grahamsphillips

DF65 is £60 less than a Niche, what are the tricks you can apply for that? It’s not burrs.

I have the Wilfa flat, there is no obvious advantage to the flat burr taste with that, so which flat burr grinders have flat burr taste (as opposed to those with flat burrs that don’t, which suggests that burrs of all types are varied)?

FadedFrontiers

MWJB yeah it won’t get you an SSP burrset but £60 would fix some of the issues people most commonly complain about - you could add a 3d printed antipopcorn device, new declumper, you’d even have enough for better aligned Mazzer burrs with some change for other quality of life stuff like a grind dial indicator if that bothers you. Still not going to have that workflow everyone enjoys with the Niche but still improves the experience for a lot of users.

I think the big price difference between the two is for US users who can’t get the Niche for as cheap, even with the relative strength of the dollar against the pound.

JHCCoffee

My NZ is in transit, so I have yet to try it out.

But just for the heck of it, I watched Lance Hedricks video. What a self impressed egotistical j***! In the guise of being objective, he insulted any reasonably experienced home barista that bought one of these. He even insulted those that are still learning. He then proceeded to insult those of us that enjoy fuller bodied / strength coffees or coffees with chocolate and caramel notes, even though many of us also enjoy lighter roasts and or fruity notes. He then went after wine lovers who like tannins in their wines. I’m probably leaving out afew other folks that he took shots at. What a buffoon! I generally do not post comments like this on social media, but I think I just might place a couple on his channel.

tompoland

JHCCoffee I found the review to be quite unbalanced and I’m still scratching my head wondering what chemical ingestion produced such an strange rant.

The thing with Hoffman is that he’s very careful to qualify comments that he makes about his personal preferences e.g. “but that’s just me and there are many other who like this style and you may be one of them …”. In other words, Hoffman is the personifciation of the diplomatic Englishman. Hendricks seems to be more “gunboat diplomacy” style. (Still of Britich origin I know but never let the facts get in the way of humor).

Lance, good guy that I"m sure he is, comes across as a bit too much like Kaafetitus (Greek God for coffee that I just made up) as in “thus I have spoken”. I suspect @DavecUK is right in that he may be trying to create engagement and you certainly do that when you voice strong opinions. YouTube comments go up, advertising goes up.

And to be fair, sinking my hard earned into a new piece of kit has a knack of making me a tad more sensitive to critisism about my new toy.

lancehedrick

JHCCoffee I am sorry I came off as insulting! Was not my intent. I actually tried really hard to ensure I was sensitive to those who enjoy it. I am a firm believer in “enjoy what you enjoy.” But, I had loads of people telling me of their buyer’s remorse when the Niche was not all it was cracked up to be. I originally was not going to make a Niche video because, well, I did not enjoy it much outside of traditional espresso. I only made the video (and tried tiptoeing) because I thought it might help people who are easily influenced with the fandom surrounding the Niche.

Cuprajake

I don’t particularly like him,

He’s quite knowledgeable, but has a wierd way of showing it.

He championed a female barista called Morgan who has a yt channel I’m sure she won a world barista thing too.

But yeah not a fan

DavecUK

Cuprajake I don’t particularly like him,

He’s quite knowledgeable, but has a wierd way of showing it.

He championed a female barista called Morgan who has a yt channel I’m sure she won a world barista thing too.

Morgan Ekroth (on the far right). Lance is a decent enough guy when you meet him, but might be trying a little too hard to make an impact. His latte art stuff on YouTube is excellent..but I think the reviews need more depth. I guess he will improve with more experience.

Meet Barista Morgan Eckroth - I'M NOT A BARISTA

tompoland

Cuprajake a female barista called Morgan who has a yt channel I’m sure she won a world barista thing too.

She won USA barista championship and came runner up in the world championship help in Melbourne two months ago.

A class act is Morgan. A bit like Hoffman (a previous world barista champion) in some ways in that she is putting herself on the world stage to have her smarts independently validated by qualified judges. Respect.

JHCCoffee

Definitely knowledgeable, but he could learn abit of humility, that there are a multitude of opinions and ideas in the world, and that you have to be respectful or people will just tune you out. I already have.

Cuprajake

It seems to be a common trend is coffee, there’s only Thier way to do stuff, you see this in a lot of manufacturs who won’t listen.

Cuprajake

tompoland yeah I’ve watched her vids for quite a while on YouTube, seems quite grounded tbf. Takes guts to have that level of pressure upon you.

MediumRoastSteam

tompoland And to be fair, sinking my hard earned into a new piece of kit has a knack of making me a tad more sensitive to critisism about my new toy.

Honest question: Does that make you bias, maybe unconsciously, when you review your equipment? 🤔

lancehedrick

tompoland I buy most of what I have, to be fair. I overspent my Youtube and Patreon money last year by a few grand. Spent $24,000 and made$ 20,000. So I was in a $4k deficit. This year will be even worse since I built a studio. Side note- it’s not very cool saying a fellow creator had a “chemical ingestion.” I have championed a few of your videos to others. So, that kind of sucks.

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam fair question.

IMHO it’s impossible not have some unconscious bias. It goes with being human.

Just adding another thought @MediumRoastSteam : I would say though that if a grinder goes “clunk-whack-bang”, it does have a way of cutting through any unconscious bias!

And that’s OK so long as I stay aware that my conclusions / preferences aren’t universally applicable. Not just because of some degree of inescapable bias but also because everyone has a different experience of reality.

That’s why it’s always “just my two bobs worth”.

tompoland

PS speaking of reviews, just finished the review of the Olympia Moca SD. It’s now with Olympia for the manufacturer’s right of reply. Due to post it in ten days time.

Cuprajake

When I bought my first niche I sold it within the week, couldn’t see what all th fuss was about 🤣

Now I’m more learned I have a niche,

But use the mazzer 😜

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