**Context** During my experience with coffee, every so often I get some improvements from some changes, but for me nothing made more dramatic changes than changing the grinder. I tried: Sage BE, DF64 with SSP HU, Niche, Mazzer Major, Mahlkonig E80 Supreme (it has the 807Lab Sweet burrs). **Status quo** Even tho it was the cheapest grinder of all, the best espresso I’ve got so far was the one from MM. It is balanced, it has fabulous body, with complex and intense flavours. **What next?** So currently I am enjoying this setup but the question is what to try next? Going to the same vertical, the only espresso I tried that beats my MM is done with Mythos 2 (at a coffee shop I frequent). I found this shot to have slightly thinner body (not as creamy as my MM) but the flavours were more complex and more intense - a very aromatic cup. Tbh it could be that MM has that thick body that can mask other subtle notes. Unfortunately Mythos 2 is difficult for me to find (at a decent price), and the very next alternative would be a used Mythos 1. Would you recommend this move? Do you think this makes sense as an upgrade? **Alternatives** Other (quite different) options I am considering, not necessarily as an upgrade but more to explore different realms: * Hand grinder, particularly C40 (a lot of ppl praise it) * EK43 (yeah, I know..) or other 98mm flat burr grinder, just on the premise “the bigger, the better” and to explore if they can provide more aromatic shots. **The machine** I know there is also the option to upgrade the machine, but on the paper at least, I just fail to see what a different machine can bring on the table. I own a Silvia Pro (DB, PID) which has dimmer mod and I can vary the flow from 100% to 0%. Maybe not as repeatable as Decent or a spring lever but it is there and I use it. **Beans** I’ve got my best cups from medium roasts. Very light roasts were almost always a failure for me (some were too sour, some had too much fermentation notes) but maybe if I get the right grinder for them, who knows? **Brew** Although not the primary focus, I am also increasingly more into V60 lately and a grinder that could also help with that (thinking of c40, ek43?) would be advantageous. **Budget** Depends on some “complicated” factors, but the budget is max 2K. So no new P100, new EK43, Flat MAX, and other rare gems. Those are reserved as the last resort if nothing else can do it. So what do you think, what grinder do you recommend me to try? Would you recommend try upgrading something else than the grinder? Cheers

@"Petre"#p18897 Wow! ! You have had an amazing journey with your grinders and MM is going to be a benchmark. Any change from here, IMO, needs to be a step up in performance (ie cup). My only concern is you may be getting into a law of diminishing returns. Having said, you have brilliant people who would know about grinders inside out. Let them expertly guide you through. @"Systemic"#8 has EK43 but, I think if my memory serves right, he fitted, Turkish burrs. I don’t think you need a hand grinder for brews, unless you want it for a change. You may have seen this JH videos. https://youtu.be/6LGeBcUZ9YA Please take a look to refresh your memory. Edit JH’s weber key review https://youtu.be/bQ-ta6s931c

@"Petre"#p18897 Perhaps it is time to upgrade the machine, someone with the same grinder may have a view @"Cuprajake"#144

@"Petre"#p18897 You should know by now what the threads like this may lead you into! I stopped short of recommending a machine upgrade than grinder! I knew some one like @"DavecUK"#1 would precisely do that! Go figure ! 😉🤣

SSP burrs for your major and then an ims e&b labs superfine basket. Loved my superfine with the Bianca, the 83mm burrs come up time to time but they came quick new.

@"LMSC"#p18903 haha, yeah, I know it is an open ended question, and although I am biased towards grinders I am considering anything that would give be a better cup! @"DavecUK"#p18901 Indeed I gave a lot of thought to this. What machines you think I should look for? Need to mention that my Silvia measured pretty solid in terms of temp stability, pressure and the flow is controllable through dimmer. @"Cuprajake"#p18906 I did not know about those baskets, are they better the VST? I’ll probably order some anyway. But much more importantly, and I always wanted to ask you: could you describe how the SSP HU compare with stock burrs in MM? Also, do you agree with my description of what stock MM gets you? (just so we have a calibration point).

> @"Petre"#p18913 Indeed I gave a lot of thought to this. What machines you think I should look for? Need to mention that my Silvia measured pretty solid in terms of temp stability, pressure and the flow is controllable through dimmer. Well, I reckon try a lever for the fun factor…..see how you get on.

There is one listed for sale! It is a steal at a discounted price. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/713-acs-vesuvuis-evo-leva-for-sale

Umm been a long time since I had the stock fitted. The ims cleans the month feel. The SSP give me a sweeter brighter cup

@"audiomacgyver"#p18918 I am using RO and remineralise it with epsom salt and baking soda. I’ve set it on BH#4 (80 gh, 40 kh) and did not get to experiment too much yet (with espresso).

Grinder Upgraditis - Mazzer Major + DB machine

hthec

DavecUK how would you advise to do that? Would you advise marker test and shimming with aluminium foil strips?

DavecUK

hthec I guess you can try that, keeping in mind some types of misalignment can’t be shimmed out and tolerances on these commercial grinders are not that tight.

CafeNoir

JahLaza FWIW, my grinder started life as a bag grinder. IMHO, it’s far simpler to convert to single dose because the electrics are very simple and it’ll probably have a front panel already.

JahLaza

CafeNoir ok cool, as far as I know it does have a panel on front. I’ll know more when I hopefully get to see it (early next week if it’s still around). What mods did you need to do please? Did you change the dispense chute?

JahLaza

CafeNoir hi, what mods did you carry out on yours? I’ll be optimising it for single dosing also if I get it

JahLaza

DavecUK making me nervous about going near it now! I guess I’d have to actually do the marker test on inspection to confirm this wouldn’t I?

CafeNoir

DavecUK Think I got lucky here, which is a nice change, lol! Only needed a small amount (2 pcs mylar) of shimming to get a lovely even marker removal. I’m saving up for some shiny new Red Speeds (think that’s right for purely espresso?), which should likely outlast me

DavecUK

JahLaza making me nervous about going near it now! I guess I’d have to actually do the marker test on inspection to confirm this wouldn’t I?

No need to be, think about 2 rotating disks and the types of misalignment, a marker pen simply shows you rub points.

Below is a work in progress, it’s unfinished and I don’t know if I will ever get round to finish it. It takes a grinder where the upper burr is fixed and as part of the adjustment process is not rotated (e.g. K3 or ECM grinders etc..). I started this a few years ago. At least it gives you some things to consider. |Take it all with a pinch of salt, I can’t remember what comments I was going to put on the last image and I can’e remember if it replicated some stuff in the first image….enjoy

JahLaza

Thanks Dave,I saw that before, think you posted it on here. I understand the principle ok and that gives plenty more detail but is there anything I can check for when I go to look at it? I’ve read about checking for bearing wear, obvious mad noises etc. but how could I check for this here and are there other ‘obvious’ checks I could check for?

CoyoteOldMan

The “burr colouring” test at least is diagnostic, if the seller lets you carry it out… It is not a good indication of whether you can fix it, much less of whether you can fix it easily.

Cuprajake

depends its got aftermarket burrs in it, just put stock back in there not expensive,

JahLaza

Alright I’ll just check for obvious stuff then, sounds like it can be a gamble regarding the alignment and by installing stock burrs maybe would fix this if it is an issue. I’ve been informed there’s titanium burrs in there but they’re not new, the seller didn’t know how long they’ve been there

CoyoteOldMan

JahLaza installing stock burrs maybe would fix [alignment] if it is an issue

Unless the replacement burrs are really horribly manufactured, I wouldn’t think that’s going to be the case - though it will provide an ‘excuse’ to get stuff as good as can be (clean base, shim to the extent possible, reasonably equal tension on the screws). Obviously, new burrs will (everything else being the same) grind better than old ones…

CafeNoir

JahLaza Oh darn, thought I’d posted to answer this…blast!

Ok, my main guide was a chap called JimboJohn on the “other forum”…..very easy to follow and good pics.. important for a bear of small brain like yours truly…there are heaps of others but I found his worked for me.

It’s called “Pimp my Shelf Octopus Funnel” Iol…the funnel is pretty cheap (about €12) from AliExpress and not to hard to work…I used a Dremel knock off with a cutoff wheel and a couple of needle files for finish shaping. It helps to have titanium drills for the mounting holes because stainless is a p.i.t.a. to drill…the cutoff wheel eats it though, gotta be careful because the metal is pretty thin.

I used the Electronic Major hopper dimensions for sizing the exit hole, stock the funnel has a tiny outlet.

Self adhesive neoprene closed cell foam tape makes an excellent vibration absorbing joiner between grinder and funnel.

JahLaza

CafeNoir you came back you came back!! Thanks for that, I’m trying to see what I’d need to do /spend if I go for this. I’ll obviously know more when I see it (thinking it might already have the motor cover. As yours was also a grocery model, was there a lot of retention/exchange in the delivery spout/chute and between the grinding chamber and outlet? Do you use any sort of blower/bellows after your shot?

Cuprajake

It does have the motor cover, it’s fitted in the pics of the grinder.

The wire just needs a jumper, very self explanatory when you see it.

For the money you won’t get much better. You could look at a df64 then a set off upgrade burrs but you will run into the same problems in terms of retention or bellows.

Fwiw how my mazzer is set up now is very good, it has very little retention,

If you are worried about all the above then I’d say get a niche ordered

JahLaza

Cuprajake thanks again Cuprajake. I have a niche at the moment which is great but I’m looking for an affordable flat burr too, and this looked like the best solution so I’m doing the research now before pulling the trigger! Just lining up the ducks etc. I’ve read that some people have next to no retention after mods so I am really just preparing here. As you say, at the price it’s good value. Thanks for your help to date on this, I’ve gone through your other thread on the previous place and it’s excellent.. methinks I’ll be modding this time next week…

CafeNoir

JahLaza My bag spout was a bit of a retention monster, to be honest…it took a lot of fossicking around to get the retained grounds out, even using the clip as a knocker.

I looked seriously at remodeling the spout to reduce retention but honestly, it was beyond my skillset. And CupraJake is right, the funnel just looks right. And hell yeah on the using a blower thing, coffee dust to Africa!!!

Not to mention it is so darn easy to clear retained grounds

I appreciate my Niche and it’s going nowhere anytime soon, but when it’s a SO going through my little levers, the F6 kills it for taste. Funnily enough it appears to use the same burr sizing mounting holes as a MM, so this could be lots of fun!

Cuprajake

Yeah I wasn’t a fan of the Wong kit. It was well made but soon as you add any bellows to a grinder there’s grinds all over the places.

Plus I prefer the OEM look of a funnel

John_Yossarian

Petre I have got Mythos 1 and I will stand corrected, but I believe that Mythos 2 has the Clima upgrade that at home use brings little (if any) benefits. Apart from that the motor and the burrs are the same, i.e. should you come across a Mythos 1 it might not be that bad.

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