My workflow of feeding the machine and keeping the scaling risk is good. I haven’t seen anything, which is a cause for concern, so far. Touch wood. **The current practice:** Feed the remineralised water straight from the OZ on demand; draw a cup after every steaming and do a full refresh every 3 months. Over 14 months, the GH range of the service boiler is 7 mg/l - 21 mg/l. I do think from time to time the following, when the Evo tank requires a refill, if I should do the following once a week: * Remove the mineralisation filter, * draw out the 1L water from the OZ Internal filter * Prep a concentrate of bicarb * Refill the Evo tank and add 8-10ml of concentrate * Draw another 5L of RO and keep it under the sink. We are probably ok during winter. I don’t think we need more than 7.5L a week of RO even if we draw a small cup after every steam. The question: Will the 5L water, if kept at the room temperature, be fit for consumption? Are there any health risks? My wife thinks it is a bad idea, and asked why change the routine when things seem under control; she recommends keeping it simple and continue the current practice, unless required. She does have a point.

This is way overthinking things. **If David had put a borescope inside his steam boiler, I don't think you would see any scale formation.** Osmio is meant to have a cartridge in the remineralisation area, just check the water path of the cartridge. Use a blank one or sterilise an old one and keep using till it wears out. However, I don't believe you need to keep removing the remineralisation cartridge, which also means removing and refitting the filters each time.

> @"DavecUK"#p25502 This is way overthinking things. While you have maintained the decorum, my wife gave me a cold stare and rolled her eyes suggesting ![Giphy - Kate Hudson GIF by The Roku Channel](https://media3.giphy.com/media/H2pGvZcbk7uXzPbGM8/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869ftre5gzo4u67ha77itm824yzieyzxttaq2763vkwx&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g) > @"DavecUK"#p25502 boroscope inside his steam boiler, I don’t think you would see any scale formation. Seriously? Is it because the scale would have formed and coated around the boiler like a thin film?

I spoke to OZ today. During the course of the chat, we spoke about the composition of the mineralisation cartridge. They drew my attention to a few things that can make up the final hardness of the mineralised RO from the OZ. * Feeding hot water, depending on how hard the water is, might have a higher hardness in the pure RO vs the RO hardness from soft/softened water. * A lack of descaling of the RO system will have an impact on the hardness content of the RO water * The silver-costed **mineralisation cartridge has calcium and magnesium** and is likely to add about 10-20 ppm as CaCO3 to the RO water. This depends on how long the minerals were in contact with the water. * If anyone wants to run the unit without the mineral cartridge, it can be done after replacing it with a blank cartridge. Otherwise, the unit will leak. So, it does make sense to test, from time to time, the mineralised RO water from Osmio Zero to get an idea of the general hardness. Feeding a hard water may have a higher hardness content than the soft / softened water. The risk of scaling also differs in every one of our machines.

@"LMSC"#p25507 I think what Dave meant, was that there would be no scale inside the boiler. Simply because there is scale on the outside, signifies that the leak has dripped away and evaporated for a considerable amount of time leaving the deposits that you see. I do not know for sure, but I think Osmio designed the Zero work without changing filters and remineralising on a regular basis. I have ordered one of those measuring things but I am pretty confident the scale build up is nothing to do with the Osmio underperforming!

> @"dfk41"#p25532 I have ordered one of those measuring things but I am pretty confident the scale build up is nothing to do with the Osmio underperforming! I am also sure it isn’t anything to do with OZ. It’s a build over time as you say. In addition, we also know regular steaming and a lack of regular flushing / refreshing will accumulate minerals. 😊

@"LMSC"#p25538 On the outside of the boiler though?

@"dfk41"#p25549 Good question mate! It’s the issue surrounding the inlet complicates it. Did the water leak outside at the L joint around the inlet or the water leak inside out (when it boils) or both? I would think it is inside out - more hardness deposits as we steamed and not flushed. The bottom line is - you are good now. With regular flushing, either a cup a day as some of us do or full monthly flush as MRS suggested should do. Only thing is our first two batches of machines’ pipe does not go all the way down to allow a full flesh thru’ the hot water tap. You may ask Systemic’s routine to ascertain the best way to manage as I have also installed a drain valve.

While this is hot, I thought I’d ask something I’ve wondered about for a while. I only use osmio zero with re mineralisation cartridge. I hardly ever steam, maybe once every two weeks or less (I do intend to get more into it though!). I have refreshed the steam boiler water two or three times since getting the Vesuvius about 6 months ago just as a precaution for stale water purposes. Yesterday I removed the remineralisation cartridge, emptied the osmio tank, and refilled the Vesuvius with just ro water after flushing the steam boiler tank out. I will continue using remineralised water as usual from here. Couple of questions: 1. How often should I refresh this water 2. How often does the osmio remineralisation cartridge last Cheers

@"JahLaza"#p25559 Dave has been using RO for more than 10-12 years. He has plenty of actual usage experience than any of us. I am sure, he will advise you. IMO, your refresh cycle is more than sufficient; Re-the mineralisation filter, it should starts losing its’ potency steadily. It depends on how much water you draw from the unit. We draw at least 10-12 litres a day and more during week ends. Ours’ loses its utility in 6 months. Ex: the TDS when we changed the filter in March was 50-60+. Now, it is about 30! However, we won’t change until it shows change filter or the anniversary month in Feb/March Hope it helps. Don’t think it does anything significant.

@"LMSC"#p25564 thanks for that. I use the osmio with remineralisation as my water source. I assumed that was fine and would not cause scaling even if I steamed every day, assuming an approximate alkalinity of 40mg/l and gh around that too. Don’t want to start another one of these conversations here now!! But, in simple terms I figured remineralised osmio will be fine- plug and play. I also figured I’ve less to worry about seeing as I steam so seldom. I guess that thought was challenged when I saw @"dfk41"#4’s photo here but even that isn’t clear cut as noted by @"DavecUK"#1 that the boiler is probably fine inside. I changed my filters last November and intend to leave alone until I get a warning light to change them or around November seeing as a year has been suggested as a good time to change them if they last that long (I noticed it was stated here before that from a bacterial point of view that’s recommended). That prompted my question about the lifespan of the remin cartridge but don’t think it will be an issue if it’s done before the others either way. I sterilise it with blank cartridges (and Milton tablets) about half yearly. I’m still very pleased with the osmio and am curious to see if I get the year from the filters, my tap water is about 220 mg/l gh I think

Keep the Osmio Zero water (without mineralisation)

LMSC

Verion Sounds like a plan! :-)

Btw, you will find an excel under @Rob1’s signature. Please take a look. It’s pretty good.

Verion

So my OZ turned up to today and it’s set it up and ready to go.

Testing with my £6.99 TDS meter from Amazon, regular tap water at room temperature reading is around 409. OZ water at room temperature is around 49.

That’s quite a drop of 88%.

I need to get the KH/GH test kit from my local aquatics supplier, but the water looks like it’s in a good place for when my Minima turns up.

Abcan

Hi all. I didn’t want to start a new thread so hoped I’d get an answer here……..I’m looking to buy an OZ, for when my Minima arrives. I understand the need to sanitise the OZ but can’t get my head around why it would need descaling (as mentioned in a this and other OZ threads) could anyone answer my (maybe stupid) question please?

P.S I live in a fairly soft water area.

Thanks

Rob1

Abcan not entirely sure….scale forms at low temperatures when water is supersaturated. Could well be it’s just to get the salts off the filters. In short, you don’t just get scale from heating the water…. though I believe the oz does that too.

JahLaza

Not sure on this one either. The filters are removed for descaling so they don’t get any treatment. If the operational filters remove scale from the water, then surely you are just descaling the route from reservoir to the filters? A short piece of tubing. Is it then that the only part of it that’s descaled is the reservoir tank and pipes to filters?

Edit - I suppose whatever is left after the filters starts to deposit over time especially around the heating element?

Abcan

Thanks @Rob1. That makes sense but I’m still thinking like @JahLaza. 🤔

Rob1

Not necessarily, after filtration it’s not going to heat enough to scale. Must be pipes to filters. That’s assuming the heating element only comes into contact with filtered water.

JahLaza

I just tested the output of my Osmio zero. Filters are 11 months old. KH is 26.9 and GH was negligible (seemed to turn green after first drop and remained green thereafter with more drops added). This confuses me as I thought KH is carbonate hardness (hardness due to bicarbonates alone) whereas GH is general hardness (hardness contributed by all contributers), hence I would have imagined GH would be greater than KH? Any thoughts on this? I use the API drop test kit, 40ml sample, results divided by 4

Rob1

JahLaza It’s a measure of alkalinity which is contributed by more than just bicarbonate, though bicarb will be the main source. The filters are likely much better at removing calcium and magnesium than they are bicarbonate and other smaller things due to particle size.

JahLaza

Rob1 does this mean there is some carbonates and nothing else? I realise it’s a pretty crude test, but in simple terms. And pertaining to the Osmio operation,the remineralisation has probably stopped supplying back some? Or do these results indicate it’s removing everything and the remineralisation cartridge is adding the 26.9pm I got? I always leave that cartridge in

Rob1

JahLaza Oh, ok I assumed based on the title of the thread that the remineralisation cartridge wasn’t being used. It’s supposed to add alkalinity and hardness back in about equal measure, I think. It may be exhausted and the output represents pretty much the results of filtration. I can’t say if the alkalinity is from carbonates or not. Probably. Osmio are reluctant to say exactly what is in the remineralisation cartridge, could be phosphates or citrates.

LMSC

40 ml sample divided by 8. It may not matter much.

JahLaza

LMSC apologies it’s 20 mls of a sample, the result divided by 4

JahLaza

Rob1 yes, apologies I just tagged on to one of the many Osmio/water threads. I always put all filters in and leave it at that. Probably time to change filters so

JahLaza

I’m back to changing my filters again (just over 13 months old). Osmio recommend descaling and sanitising periodically, mine is due both. Each takes a bit of time! I’m in the middle of descaling with citric acid at the moment. Is there much advantage to sanitising then as well (with Milton solution)? As citric acid has anti bacterial anti mould and mildew properties I think, will it essentially perform the same task as sanitising with Milton solution? I know its effectiveness will probably be reduced if the solution is neutralised by the descaling action but just thought I’d ask people’s opinions

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