coffeealex Afternoon, question for you. One person you seek advice from works on a not for profit expansion of the coffee industry for the benefit of consumers……the other is a coffee salesman! Which one do you think is going to give the more balanced answer and which one is more likely to go and check stock levels and profit margins before he answers!
You are not comparing like for like matey. If you do not want to pressure profile then why consider a Bianca? If you want to pressure profile, then why consider a Profitec as it cannot………

https://www.suddencardiacarrestuk.org/2024/02/thank-goodness-for-madeira-cake/

      I second @dfk41 - That was exactly what I was trying to say in my post, but in a more diplomatic way 🤣

      By the time you add a flow control valve to the Profitec and a gauge, you’ll be approx. £400 (if not more) above the binaca price.

      That does not give you any of the other features the Bianca has. To put it simply, there’s nothing the Bianca can’t do that the Profitec can.

      It’s all down to aesthetics and personal preference at the end of the day.

      Personally, unless you really want a Profitec machine and are convinced that it will make a better coffee because it’s made in Germany, I would defo politely ignore the salesman advice given and go with your instincts for what you want.

      dfk41 If you want to pressure profile, then why consider a Profitec as it cannot………

      To be fair, both Profitec and ECM have pressure/flow profiling kits as optional (or as standard in some versions of the 700/Synchronika).

      I think “we” (yourself, @MediumRoastSteam and I) are all aligned on having to be cognisant of the vested interests of those we seek advice from…

        JahLaza Sorry - I should have made it clear that this is clearly a scam! I just found it funny that MediumRoastSteam made a typo (missing a zero in the price), but I managed to find a “cheaper” one.

            coffeealex The coffees that require a simple extraction would be pretty much the same, those that would benefit from flow profiling and bloom phase would not.

            In addition look at the entire feature set of each machine and decide what best fits your lifestyle. As someone said, you can buy a profiling kit for the Profitec.

            I may well be updating my old Lelit Bianca review with one for the V3 Bianca….when I get time.

            Contact me

                dfk41 Thanks i get your point. This is the main reason I am on this forum. I think though it is useful to get a viewpoint from all angles even if there is a bias as sometimes a feature is highlighted that you may not be aware of. For me they both are very good machines and I do not think that either would be a poor choice. Again maybe I should take it with a pinch of salt but heard it from more than one employee that they see far less profitec machines breaking down than any other make. If i buy from BB the pressure profiling issue is now slightly redundant as they are not selling going forward any non profiling profitec.

                The point is probably best illustrated in the Mark and Java Jim videos which contrast each other. Interestingly enough they both seem to have been taken down from what I can see. I have to say though it does annoy me that lelit chose to put a chrome plated mushroom and not stainless steel. After all the chrome will come off and probably after only 4-8 weeks, which begs the question where does it end up?

                I was sold on Lelit, now back to 50/50

                    DavecUK Thank you. For me they are both great machines with plus and minuses both sides. From a technical point of view ( as I have become more interested with that in time) are they both very serviceable in your opinion? easy to obtain parts? One thing i noticed with the profitec is they have a plug on both boilers that could come in useful for things like fully emptying if you ever needed to descale, although the service boiler one is not as well positioned imo as the brew one. Could be useful feature for draining either and avoiding it travelling through the group e61 parts.

                        CoyoteOldMan I should have made it clear that this is clearly a scam! I just found it funny that MediumRoastSteam made a typo (missing a zero in the price),

                        I meant to have written £200 more. I’ve corrected the post now. 👍

                          coffeealex The lelit service boiler can be emptied via the hot water tap for descaling, presumable so can the profitec.

                          there is an access panel under the Lelit brew boiler (and service boiler), so you can remove the heating element to drain it. See my tech tour video for the Bianca. It’s for the V1, but the main layout re boilers hasn’t changed.

                          Parts and servicing of either machine shouldn’t be problematic….the V3 Lelit is of course slightly more complex… with the hi and low flow solenoid systems

                          Contact me

                            coffeealex ake it with a pinch of salt but heard it from more than one employee that they see far less profitec machines breaking down than any other make.

                            My Profitec broke down (Display was turning itself on and off constantly once low water level was detected). That was within 15 months of ownership or so. The solution was a Gicar box replacement under warranty.

                            My Elizabeth (Lelit) has been going strong for the past two years and counting.

                            I’d take with a pinch of salt indeed.

                              coffeealex The point is probably best illustrated in the Mark and Java Jim videos which contrast each other. Interestingly enough they both seem to have been taken down from what I can see.

                              Please ignore that video. It shows one company slagging off the machine they don’t carry in their stock! Then the other person goes and creates an adequate response in return.

                              Absolutely total bullshit. What those videos showed me is that I would never ever again watch anything from the YouTube channel again - specially from the first one. Pure marketing. Shameful.

                                coffeealex One thing i noticed with the profitec is they have a plug on both boilers that could come in useful for things like fully emptying if you ever needed to descale, although the service boiler one is not as well positioned imo as the brew one.

                                Do they? That must be new. Do you have images or a video showing that?

                                    coffeealex they are not selling going forward any non profiling profitec.

                                    That would mean they aren’t selling anything other than the 500, 600 and 700 with the profiling kit… which would imply they are going only for the top (10 - 20%) of the market. They are still listing the 300, 800 and the Go (in no fewer than 4 different colours - must make better coffee if it’s red?). It’s also interesting that they aren’t listing any flow control/profiling ECM machines.

                                        CoyoteOldMan don’t know with the other models 300 etc . All i was told that as far as the 700 is concerned they are only going to sell and stock the one with the flow valve going forward. Maybe lelit has pushed them to think that way.

                                            coffeealex Possible. The other factor is that they (ECM/Profitec) have decreased the price of the profiling kit quite significantly from when it was only available as an option for the Synchronika: it was nearly £400 (6 months ago); now the “flow profile option” on the 700 is £100 (or less, since the price difference also includes lever steam/water valves). It does however bring the price difference with the Bianca to £300.

                                              So for an extra £300 you get:

                                              • Drain valves;*
                                              • Stainless Steel E61 “mushroom”;
                                              • Potentially better overall finishing and layout;
                                              • Joystick valves;
                                              • No low pressure mode;
                                              • No movable tank;
                                              • No LCC;
                                              • If memory serves me right, the Profitec flow control valve has more involved maintenance than Lelit’s.

                                              * I don’t see any mentioning of drain valves on the machine though. If that’s something you’d value, I’d ask BB to clarify.

                                              Good luck in your purchase and decision. I think both machines would be great. Just remember to go by what you think is best, rather than someone else’s opinion.

                                                MediumRoastSteam I don’t see any mentioning of drain values on the machine though. If that’s something you’d value, I’d ask BB to clarify.

                                                👍👍👍👍👍👍
                                                It wouldn’t be the first (nor the last) time something is done/added for a specific market that isn’t possible/replicated for others. The taps/plugs (as the one for draining the service boiler) are probably there anyway. The valve… may or may not be.