Both single dose, both flat burrs, both 83mm. What are the differences?

@"Cuprajake"#p33947 Hehe yes, another similarity. So what separates them?

Pricez dunno never used either Ceado has more pedigree. Can only speak of my mazzer, think @"Systemic"#8 has experience with the e37

I'm just wondering why you would go for the Ceado if they are both nearly identical in the cup?

@"DrForinor"#p33950 not unique or specific to the Caedo necessarily but aesthetics can be a factor and so too workflow. Also dimensions including footprint. Durability, ease of cleaning, brand reputation, support, parts, warranty. As mentioned, I'm not saying these necessarily apply to the Caedo but the are factors that can make some choose a more expensive grinder when the in-cup experience may be similar to a less expensive option.

The E37SD is not a 'real' single dose grinder. It's basically an E37S without the hopper and a puffer on top*. I have not seen a DF83 'in the flesh', but looking at a couple of reviews where they dismantle it at least as far as the grinding chamber, it's not built as well as the E37S and it uses a spring-attached burr carrier. In practice, the only differences you are likely to find is that the E37SD keeps its grinding setting (burr distance) even if you take it apart for cleaning and it's easier to adjust because of the worm gear (and it's _probably_ quieter). It's also possible that the Ceado setting is more 'repeatable' because of the absence of springs in the setting mechanism. Retention on my E37S can be brought down to 0.1 - 0.3 grams by puffing the grounds out - whether they end up in the portafilter is a different matter. Polishing the exit hole from the grinding chamber has made a large difference to the amount of retained grounds without puffing (and it takes 10 minutes to do). Durability/reliability on the Ceado are tested; on the DF83 far less so. Whether both produce equally good grounds, I have no idea. The E37SD It's also more than twice the price of the DF83. ------- \* Plus a few other changes - different burrs, quick-release on the worm gear, grind switch positioned on the control panel, reduced electronic functionality (no timer), lower rpm motor and a cut-off rubber gasket on the chute. Some of these can be 'reproduced' in a standard E37S by moving a couple of hot-links on the electronic board... and the burrs and quick-release can be bought for less than the difference in price between an E37SD and an E37S.

There expensive too, There's a cheap major on eBay, in fact there's a couple. Could buy one of those and your set

Mine is haha Any of these big grinders are not just pour in. They use a bellows of some sort Mine I use a brush and a second perge

@"Cuprajake"#p33964 Did you modify yours? Or they are low retention, single dose straight out of the box?

Ceado E37SD vs DF83

Cuprajake

Nearly got a honne grinder but the 3d printed bits and messy use put me off

Fwiw I can grind beans and wipe with the mazzer quicker than the niche does its dose.

Everyone goes on about speed but we’re only making one, maybe two espresso not like we have a cafe to sort😂😂

DrForinor

CoyoteOldMan I’m going to read more on the Olympia.

Cuprajake So very true, I don’t necessarily need the speed, but I want as easy a workflow as possible. You might still point out, I’m only making 1 or 2, but still, I want ease 😂😂

prezes

I’ve been using df83 for near a month now. First few weeks next to niche zero to compare side by side and now moved to using df83 only for over a week.

I am impressed with it and considering keeping it over the niche although I wasn’t expecting this initially. Especially I am not a fan of puffer on a grinder. Obviously giving myself time to make sure.

There’s a bit of retention when switching grind setting but nothing extortionate (maximum I noticed was 0.3g) and to my surprise when started to weigh output from Niche to compare it was doing the same thing.

Few things to note:

I changed the burrs to original mazzer so can’t comment on original
I removed the flap and just left the star part of the clump crusher
I waxed the chute with bees wax

DrForinor

prezes I’ve been seriously considering the DF83, but just uncertain to it’s longevity. Workflow seems to be easy from what I’ve seen. The bellows doesn’t actually bother me - I’m using the bellow in my current SPTK38.

wilburpan

DrForinor I’ve been seriously considering the DF83, but just uncertain to it’s longevity.

Knowing something about machining and manufacturing, and having had my DF83 for a month now, I have a hard time seeing how the DF83 would have any longevity issues. The motor is quite robust, and the tolerances for the moving parts seem very tight. If I had to guess at what might fail in the future, I’d guess it might be the power switch, just because that’s a moving part. But even then I’m thinking that it would be years before that happens, and that’s a trivial fix if it does. Emphasis on the “if”.

wilburpan

DrForinor As far as the workflow goes I understand nothing beats the Niche. Though knowing what I’m like, I think I would prefer a cup profile from a flat burr set.

But I want an easy workflow, Lagom P-64? Ceado E37SD? Is the Ceado worth it?

I have a DF83, and just love it. I’ve never used the Niche, but I can’t imagine that the workflow is so much better than what I do with my DF83 that it would be a meaningful difference.

I generally am grinding 18.5-19.0 g of beans. Here’s my workflow.

Weigh out the beans in the collection cup.
Take the lid off the bellows, put the beans in the grinder through the bellows, and put the lid back on. Put the cup in the holder.
Turn the power on. Grinding takes about 5 seconds before the output starts to slow down.
As the output slows down, I’ll push on the bellows until nothing comes out anymore. This is another 5 seconds or so.
Transfer the ground coffee to my 9Barista, make espresso, and enjoy.

Doing this, the retention is negligible. I generally get out what I put in, and if I’m off, it’s by 0.1g. In my hands, that’s less than a single bean.

DrForinor

wilburpan That’s exactly what I’ve come to understand the DF83 to be like.

Changing grind settings seems to be easy as well.

Right now the DF83 is at the top of the list for me. Doesn’t look too bad, fairly compact given the size of the burrs, low retention, nice workflow. So far I can’t think of a genuine negative that has put me off it.

DrForinor

Considering what the DF83 is capable of, at it’s price point, it’s very difficult to dismiss it against other grinders, barr the issues @CoyoteOldMan raised against it.

Systemic

Cuprajake Can only speak of my mazzer, think @Systemic has experience with the e37

Yep. Replaced a Major, I’d converted to electronic with an E37. Same 83mm burrs but more compact height-wise.

DrForinor

I do like a shorter grinder.

Cuprajake

How tall is the df83

wilburpan

Cuprajake My DF83 is little less than 370 mm tall including the bellows.

The website says that if you use the hopper, it’s 17.7 inches tall.

CoyoteOldMan

wilburpan Since this started as a comparison with the Ceado:

To the top of the adjustment ring (no bellows or hopper/rubber ring): 305 mm / 12″

To the top of the small hopper: 450 mm / 17¾"

The large hopper is ridiculously large (and stowed away somewhere), and I imagine the “SD” bellows will be somewhere around 400 mm.

Cuprajake

So about the same height as the major then

DrForinor

Cuprajake But, in general footprint, doesn’t the Major take up more space?

prezes

Yea the major is around 5cm longer and wider. I owned one converted to single dosing and loved it but couldn’t keep it due to size hence the purchase of df83

tompoland

DrForinor as the workflow goes I understand nothing beats the Niche.

There is a grinder that beats the Niche for work flow. I explain why here … https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/blog/1253-olympia-moca-sd-first-looks-review-november-2022 and it’s a flat burr; may be just the ticket.

DrForinor

tompoland That was a brilliant read, thank you for taking the time!!

I think I have my new favourite. Now need to try and source one without any faff.

tompoland

DrForinor pleased it was helpful. Have to say that the more I use the Moca SD, the more I like it. In particular the precision when changing grind size is up there with the best of the best. Tiny adjustments make a detectable difference.

DrForinor

tompoland That’s the kind of longer term summary that is reassuring.

Do you know of any place that sells it to UK customers?

tompoland

DrForinor I do not. No doubt someone here will know.

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