Appreciate your help. This was the answer I was looking for.
sage coffee machine for start up coffee shop
IzzyAg No problem and best of luck with it.
Making good coffee isn’t rocket science but it is a skill, if you receive good training they will teach you how to tweak the settings to get the most of your coffee.
Excuse me, I meant a machine with a built-in grinder. Sage Oracle Touch had been recommended in my case.
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Firstly, good luck with your business, it takes confidence to launch a business of any kind so congrats on that.
Sadly, whilst pretty bluntly delivered, the above comments are all valid, you’re not going to efficiently make ‘decent’ coffee quickly and repeatedly on a £1000 machine with a built in grinder. It’s hard enough to consistently make a good espresso on those at home.
And certainly not if you only have one member of staff.
Reliability is a huge factor and you might be making as many coffees in a day as a home user would in two months. There’s also things like temperature consistency and the ability to steam milk alongside pulling espresso.
There aren’t many machines approved for commercial and home use for less than £4K. That isn’t to say you can’t use a home one, it just means it’s not tested for that environment.
I have a machine that’s technically apporoved for commercial use and I’m still not sure I’d want to use it in a commercial setting. I’d want two groups (to make two coffees at once) at the very least. If someone comes up and orders three coffees, and you’ve got a single group home machine, their food is going to be cold by the time the coffees are ready.
My suggestion, for whatever it’s worth, would be to consider batch brewing filter coffee in a big commercial batch brewer and then serving from something like this.
It’s not going to be a cappuccino or or flat white but if the coffee isn’t the focus, it’s still a way of quickly dispensing decent enough coffee.
There used to be a coffee shop in East London which was a subsidiary of one of the best roasters in the UK (and NZ) called Ozone who would serve batch brew to commuters in the rush hour from similar canisters to the one above. It served the purpose and was still enjoyable.
Otherwise, making a decent espresso based drink commercially is an expensive and involved process that you can’t really skimp on.
Good luck with the business.
IzzyAg - ok, that makes sense now. Either that one or the Barista Express - in fact, there’s a sandwich shop near me who has one and it’s been there for a while. Saying that, I have no idea of usage as I never had a coffee from them. However, as stated before by someone else, those machines are designed to be used in a domestic environment (low usage, 3-6 cups a day) rather than your anticipated volume of 50-100 per day.
Given your budget, I don’t think the Oracle fits the bill? They sell around £1.4k new (or more) which is 40% over budget. The Barista Express retails around £400-500.
Anyway, I don’t think I’ve got anything else to add here. The “sensitive little donkey” wishes you good luck with your business venture. 😉
Picking from where Ernie1 had left, I have seen one of the roasters also happen to run a coffee shop in Finsbury Park, London having something like this on their counter.
They only brew light / medium on the brewer.
I have to caution that their mainstay is a commercial grade espresso machine; one of the mythos range is their grinder.
GL with your venture!
No problem, nevertheless thanks for your contribution and please excuse my unkind words.
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IzzyAg There is an absolute bargain Bianca for sale at the moment in the classifieds. Don’t worry about the paddle you can not use it at all for now and it should do the number and quality of drinks you want.
https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1392-lelit-bianca-10-months-warranty-ps1300
If you are not in the UK? or not nearby, something like a Minima (Big performance) will make that many coffees per day….I know because I’ve used one for that
A sage type machine is not recommended for what you want, just not rufty tufty enough for the job.
P.S. With that many coffees a day, it’s important to use water that won’t scale.
I’d say your best bet is a commercial filter coffee machine and commercial packs of pre ground to go with it. There is a selection of tastes available and some would seem ok to typical espresso users if they drink coffee with milk.
There are 2 basic types. One has a hot platform to keep a flask of coffee hot. Probably not ideal as a fresh flask can’t be prepared without removing it. Another type is designed to work into pumped thermoflasks. Probably takes ~20min or so to fill one. This sort of thing
Packs of grinds are available to suite the size of machine, Suppliers of these packs probably also supply machines. Not suggesting the one in the link just what I think would suite you as the ability to use an espresso machine doesn’t come quickly and a commercial machine plus a suitable doserless grinder is outside your budget,
IzzyAg I think it’s best indeed to work with a coffee brewer and get quality grinded beans from a local coffee roaster. Thanks for your advice, I can move forward for now.
Which is exactly what I said in Post 6!
It depends where you are located and which coffee roasters you have available around you, lots of larger wholesale roasters can provide coffee, training and lease you machines at a very competitive price. That could be a good option if you want to serve espresso drinks for 50-100 customers and don’t have the budget to cover the costs upfront, although that depends on your specific needs. Otherwise as people have suggested filter batch brewers are also very good if you want to serve 50-100 customers.
Some of the cheaper commercial batch brewers don’t really produce very good coffee, generally the spray heads are of poor quality, so I would be wary. The moccamaster kbg 741 isn’t a bad option if you buy a second carafe so you can brew another batch when one runs low. Another option would be the Marco: BRU F60A which has a larger capacity and is a plumbed in option (the manual option is fine but requires more work).
You could either get pre ground coffee, or coffee from a local supplier and grind it yourself in something as cheap as a wilfa svart and get better results.
Coffee Roaster. Home: Sage Dual Boiler, Niche Zero, Ode v2 (SSP), 1zpresso ZP6 Work: Eagle One Prima EXP, mahlkonig e80s, Mazzer Philos and lots more
The Moccamasters are also made in the Netherlands so not far away!
Thanks for your advice. I can indeed buy the moccamaster brand machines. Can you explain to me exactly what you mean by grinding coffee using a ‘wilfa svart’? Kind regards, Izzy
IzzyAg A Wilfa is a make of grinder, meaning you could buy whole beans and grind them yourself. This grinder is good for the home but not suitable in a commercial environment in my view. To make a litre of coffee you will be grinding at least 60 grams every time. I still say search your local area for tea and coffee suppliers and chat to them. Tell them you want a Batch brewer. Go in and see what they have and drink their coffee. You might find a supplier whose coffee you enjoy and would like to sell. They may well lease or give you a batch brewer in exchange for buying their coffee. This is the easiest solution to your problems. The coffee can be tasty and is simple to make. The espresso machine route really is a rabbit hole!