The only reason I’m posting this is because I’ve been racking my brain and I think I’ve noticed a little correlation.

When I was using the standard basket that came with my Elizabeth, the coffee was generally (70%) nice, not just nice but very nice. I could taste where my money was spent. That was designed for 16.5g.

I am used to 14g (I know it’s small but I can feel the difference, it’s hard to explain but I feel it) so I decided to switch baskets from the standard to my 14g IMS. Since the switch, I am finding only about 30% of my coffee tastes nice, almost like a complete reversal.

I know baskets can be forgiving, but can this really be the case here? Am I imagining it?

    The 14g IMS (marked La Marzocco) on the left, the standard basket (that arrives with the Elizabeth) is on the right.

    DrForinor I know baskets can be forgiving, but can this really be the case here? Am I imagining it?

    Well… you are changing more than the basket here: you are changing the height of the puck, the dose (if I understand your post correctly from 16.5 to 14 grams) and possibly the grind. All of these will have an impact, as well as the basket itself.

    Plus… the other factor: coffee aging (and consistency from bag to bag).

    Having seen the photo, I’d say that 1) they do look quite different, and 2) given the narrowing in the IMS, I’m not surprised you have difficulties dialling it in/extracting properly.

      The IMS doesn’t actually narrow, it’s the angle that it was taken at, that makes it appear that way. The Elizabeth has a more tapered basket, the IMS is relatively parallel.

      But all of those factors, you think contribute to making it harder to dial in? I thought if you have less coffee, it’s easier to extract? Or have I managed to confuse something?

        14g is small thats a traditional double

        personally id say get the ims competion basket 18-20 from memory or if you fancy it the ims e&b superfine

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        DrForinor if you have less coffee, it’s easier to extract?

        Not necessarily. Singles are notoriously more difficult to work on…

        DrForinor all of those factors, you think contribute to making it harder to dial in?

        No, but they are differences - the basket is only one of them.

            DrForinor standard Elizabeth on the right

            Have you noticed that it’s by La Marzocco? I didn’t know!

            But also - you can see that the IMS does taper quite considerably in the bottom third.

                CoyoteOldMan Have you noticed that it’s by La Marzocco? I didn’t know!

                Hehe yes I did, quite cool huh.

                But that taper is in the standard Elizabeth basket on the right, the left (14g IMS) has no taper.

                I’m trying coffee again in the standard Elizabeth basket, to see what I get.

                    DrForinor I think we may mean two different things with ‘taper’. This is what I mean:

                    The bottom of the IMS is quite a lot narrower than the top, and the narrowing begins half-way through the coffee-holding zone; the LM has a bit of tapering in the final 20%, but not much.

                        CoyoteOldMan Hehe, we are in full agreement about the taper. But the left (LM one) is what I am referring to my 14g IMS basket that has been giving me dial in issues.

                        The one on the right is the supplied basket with Elizabeth that does 16-18g, optimised for 16.5g as my understanding is.

                        The one on the right is the one I’ve had good results with, with ease. The left one is the one I’m struggling with.

                          Used the standard basket (on the right), for a bean I hadn’t fished in yet, adjusted the grinder to roughly what I thought it might be.

                          16.5g in, 42.2g out, 34 seconds. Tasted quite nice, by no means perfect but easily enjoyable. I’ve still got a nice taste in my mouth, an hour after it. That would have been impossible with the 14g basket on the left.

                          So the baskets do make a considerable difference.

                          Am I the only one confused by the posts in this thread?

                          I’ve read through it twice and I still don’t know which basket is the ‘IMS’ which is the Lelit, and which is the La Marzocco.

                          As far as I know, IMS doesn’t make baskets for La Marzocco which has added to my confusion as to why there’s a LM basket in the pics?

                          The funnel shaped basket looks like a typical single that’s included with some machines and the LM one looks like the smaller basket included with La Marzocco machines.

                          Source of confusion:

                          Do IMS definitely make the La Marzocco baskets, is it not VST? My IMS basket looks more like your standard Lelit basket. If your new basket is VST then it might explain the issues as they are known for being more difficult to work with than IMS.

                          Edit: your Lelit basket says it’s IMS made doesn’t it?

                            DrForinor Possibly, but I’m joining the rank of the confused. 😉

                            I would have expected the IMS 14-18 gram basked to be marked “IMS 14 - 18 grams”, which is the tapered one. And I would not have expected an IMS basket to be marked “La Marzocco”… but if I understand you correctly, the “original” basket is the tapered one marked IMS 14-18, and the “La Marzocco” one is the ‘new’ straight one, which is causing you trouble.

                            I’m not surprised that they extract differently - the hole numbers and diameters seem to be quite different (I calculated 630 holes for the “original” and 820 for the “new”, but that’s based on the holes being distributed uniformly within a dodecagon). It would be interesting to see the ‘real’ specs in terms of open areas, but I suspect the ‘new’ basket has quite a higher flow than the original, so I would expect you need to grind quite a bit finer. However, if you grind ‘too fine’ you’ll just get bitterness.

                            Have you tried decreasing the dose in the ‘old’ basket? And tinkering with grind there? I am afraid that if you change too many variables at once (basket - and thus flow and shape, and thus thickness of the puck, going thinner; dose - decreasing again the thickness) it will be difficult to understand what is actually driving the poor result.

                            All this said, I can’t understand how a basket with a smaller or very similar volume (there isn’t much difference in height between the clip ridge and the bottom of the baskets, but the old one is quite tapered, thus smaller volume) has a higher recommended dose… it may be that the ‘La Marzocco’ basket is simply the ‘wrong’ basket for the Lelit.

                                Dusk Do IMS definitely make the La Marzocco baskets, is it not VST?

                                I was also under the impression it was VST for La Marzocco.

                                If Lelit include IMS baskets with the Elizabeth then I think what you have is an IMS and VST.

                                What capacity is marked on the LM basket? And what actual dose are you using?

                                With most of the roasts I use I have to dose my 17g LM basket to about 18-19 otherwise it’s slop city on top of the puck and I don’t get as consistently enjoyable results.

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                                      Dusk When I bought the 14g IMS basket, it came as the La Marzocco 14g basket but it’s the first “good” basket I owned so I just refer to it as the IMS basket.

                                      Yes the basket that came with my Elizabeth says “by IMS 14-18g” on it.

                                      CoyoteOldMan The one marked “IMS 14-18g” (the tapered one) is the standard basket that arrived with the Elizabeth. But yes correct, the tapered one is the one that’s easy to work with using 16.5g. The more straight one, marked La Marzocco, is the more “precision” basket, which I have been using 14g in that has been giving me trouble.

                                      Ernie1 Both are definitely IMS. The one that came with the Elizabeth has IMS marked on it. The La Marzocco was an IMS one I purchased that wasn’t advertised as a “precision basket” (but was as good as a precision basket, just cheaper. it was cheaper because it didn’t arrive with a certificate but it went through the same production process, just not the same checks process at the end for the certificate).

                                      The LM is marked 14g and that’s exactly what I’m using. The one that came with the Elizabeth has 14-18g marked on it and I’m using 16.5g as per advice from other Elizabeth users.