I haven’t ordered one, hence my advice that if curiosity is really that passionate and intense, going to the main source is better for staying up to date on progress.
Meticulous
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Raja123 if curiosity is really that passionate and intense,
It certainly isn’t for me, not for the Meticulous at least. 😊 I actually had forgotten about it, but your post reminded me of it, and it’s good to know it’s coming to fruition.
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I might get one if it lands well. I’m only using the Decent DE1 for filter 3 brews, so wouldn’t mind a change. I won’t be posting my thoughts about it here, though. I’ll leave that to someone else (if there is such a person).
I always thought it was a massive scam given their failed attempts at other products
Really happy to be proven wrong on that one,
It’s an interesting machine for sure
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
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Just relatively impractical, unless you:
- Want to have a temperature controlled kettle
- not make coffee for more than one person (as it takes a while), if 2 or 3 people wanted coffees, you would all be drinking them separately and for 3 people, yours would be cold by the time you finished.
- Always uses a full fill (which is a shame they didn’t sort that before production)
- Don’t need to steam milk
- Illusory saving on counter space vs a standard machine e.g. meticulous milk, temp controlled kettle and Meticulous all on the counter.
I expect to see a lot of them appear on the used market, if the project doesn’t collapse mid way through the production and delivery phase in December 2025. I predicted it would be around 2 years later than they said (delivery 2023) when they started the campaign and have been proved correct. My major concern now is 2 years extra and unplanned for expenditure in infrastructure, exhibitions, influencers, redesigns, specialists bought on board, 43+ peoples salaries, international travel, whatever the top 2 or 3 have been taking out as pay and bonus etc..
With pledges having been cancelled and the production/material costs still to come, I’m wondering if they will run short of money!
I had concerns back in Aprilish 2023 here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1445-meticulous/141
and here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1445-meticulous/146
DavecUK Just relatively impractical, unless you:
Want to have a temperature controlled kettle
not make coffee for more than one person (as it takes a while), if 2 or 3 people wanted coffees, you would all be drinking them separately and for 3 people, yours would be cold by the time you finished.
Always uses a full fill (which is a shame they didn’t sort that before production)
Don’t need to steam milk
Illusory saving on counter space vs a standard machine e.g. meticulous milk, temp controlled kettle and Meticulous all on the counter.
Same can be said for most manual lever machines yet Flair and others have been very popular. In fact it’s not far off the 58+'s price and offers a lot more room for experimentation.
None of these are an issue for the target audience since it’s likely they’ll have some kind of temp control kettle and will enjoy espresso without milk.
DavecUK Want to have a temperature controlled kettle
not make coffee for more than one person (as it takes a while), if 2 or 3 people wanted coffees, you would all be drinking them separately and for 3 people, yours would be cold by the time you finished.
Well… it’s not a temp controlled kettle is it? Kettles don’t dispense water under pressure, so it’s a little bit unfair to say that.
If I didn’t drink milk drinks, it would a nice machine for me. It’s only me who drinks coffee in my household. Visitors… they can have tea or a French press. 😊
MediumRoastSteam If I didn’t drink milk drinks, it would a nice machine for me.
A lucky escape then! If you had been an early adopter, would you still be so positive matey? No one really expects fund raised projects to stick closely to timelines……then there is the Meticulous
FadedFrontiers Flair 58+ = $640; Meticulous planned price =$ 2,000; now available as a special Indiegogo price = $1,350.
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FadedFrontiers Most manual levers … nope. La Pavoni, Olympic Cremina, Argos Odyssey, and spring levers Elektra MCAL, Ponte Vecchio Lusso, Londinium Compressa, Izzo Alex Leva, more… will turn out lots of shots quickly, assuming the user is competent.
Meticulous ’workflow on the other hand cannot be improved by competence; the limitations Dave pointed out are built-in.
MediumRoastSteam Well… it’s not a temp controlled kettle is it? Kettles don’t dispense water under pressure, so it’s a little bit unfair to say that.
It’s not, you need a temperature controlled kettle!
DavecUK - Oh I see. I understand what you mean now. I think you can let the machine warm up the water itself but it takes ages… So you need a temp. controlled kettle to fill up the machine. I remember now. Thank you for clarifying, and I now understand your point.
And it’s so true about the footprint: I remember when I sold my machine back in the day - a Pro-700, and replaced with a hand grinder, a filter, a kettle, a milk frother etc… It took a lot more space in the surfaces than the machine itself. The only advantage is that I could put some items away, but it’s a total pain in the neck to setup everything every morning.
dfk41 A lucky escape then! If you had been an early adopter, would you still be so positive matey? No one really expects fund raised projects to stick closely to timelines……then there is the Meticulous
I have no interest in buying that machine, more so after knowing some of the history of the previous projects… So no, not for me. Am I positive? I don’t think I need to be negative. I like the idea of the machine, and I wish them good luck. But I’d rather buy one from a retailer, if I were to buy one, even if I had to pay more.
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BrendaninBrooklyn Flair 58+ = $640; Meticulous planned price =$ 2,000; now available as a special Indiegogo price = $1,350.
Meticulous started at just over 1000usd and as I said not far off, especially in the world of espresso where people are paying hundreds for a smart profiler, a scale, some wood add ons or a basket 🤣 Strietman and higher end levers are still far more than this, so relatively speaking it’s not crazy money if this is your thing - a big gamble sure.
BrendaninBrooklyn Most manual levers … nope. La Pavoni, Olympic Cremina, Argos Odyssey, and spring levers Elektra MCAL, Ponte Vecchio Lusso, Londinium Compressa, Izzo Alex Leva, more… will turn out lots of shots quickly, assuming the user is competent.
Meticulous ’workflow on the other hand cannot
I meant manual boilerless levers like Flair, Cafelat, etc where workflow and quick back to back shots capability is often also a common complaint, but you’re missing the point by comparing it to machines that either need temp surfed, cooled between shots, heavily modded or cost considerably more than the Meticulous.
This isn’t for some cafe with lots of customers, it’s for people who want to tweak every element of their shot, look at the graphs and taste different styles of espresso - not dump it in a latte or another milky drink. May not be for many of us on the forum but we can still acknowledge that there’s a bunch of people who want this sort of thing otherwise it wouldn’t have got funded in the first place.
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the actual Indie… special deal price is more than double the Flair 58+; that’s not a slight difference.
La Pavoni Europiccolo, La Pavoni Professional, Argos Odyssey, Ponte Vecchio Lusso are all less than Meticulous; Elektra MCAL is slightly more @ $1,695. All of the machines mentioned here and previously are domestic not commercial; none are particularly expensive. All can, without mods or extra expense, produce at least four shots in a brief time and then steam them too if desired. And levers inherently already do much of what Meticulous promises.
I believe you are missing my point. Meticulous, assuming it ever comes to market and actually works as advertised (two very large assumptions) is still a one-cup maker.
If someone wants to experiment widely, the machines from Decent already do so and do so for continuous servings. You can already do most of it on the Argos Odyssey btw, including graphs, for four cups before refilling and a plumbed-in option is in development.
For a company who as of yet, have no income other than backers, how on earth are they paying their wage bill which is getting bigger and prolonged?
BrendaninBrooklyn La Pavoni Europiccolo, La Pavoni Professional, Argos Odyssey, Ponte Vecchio Lusso are all less than Meticulous; Elektra MCAL is slightly more @ $1,695. All of the machines mentioned here and previously are domestic not commercial; none are particularly expensive. All can, without mods or extra expense, produce at least four shots in a brief time and then steam them too if desired. And levers inherently already do much of what Meticulous promises.
I mean they’re all nice, classic machines but you can’t pretend they’ll do the same job, they’re extremely inconsistent and don’t offer temp control - hence the temp surfing and cooling down between shots 🤣
None aside from the Odyssey Argos provide close to the control that Meticulous promises (again whether it delivers is a different matter). But to get these features from the OA you need to upgrade the 1.1k machine with a 275usd smart profiler and 250usd scale (both of which come with Meticulous).
I get your point, I’m saying Meticulous is obviously not for people who want to pull fast back to back shots or steam milk. You’re criticising it for something it’s clearly not designed for, it’s for people who want control every aspect of espresso extraction and you don’t get that with any of the other machines you just mentioned for the same price, except a Decent for 1k+ more or an OA for a similar price with smart add-ons.
If there’s extreme inconsistency, then the problem is at the other end of the portafilter ;-)
Let me ask, what exact parmeters do you want to control because maybe I’m missing something? What levers have you used?
Odyssey can use third-party bluetooth transducers costing as little as $50; however let’s say we stick with the Argos $ 1,100 for next batch machine +$ 275 for transducer + $125 for any smart scale for a total of$ 1,500, and without the plumbing option still in R&D, you can make four shots and steam if you like.
All of this may be moot because if their last post was on the level then tomorrow we should see up to 50 customers announcing they have received shipping notices, and a week later the first actual udser reports. Oh, and that would also imply the fund-raising period is over and the price will immediately increase to $2,000 or more.
$2,000 or more for a single-shot machine does not seem altogether sensible to me.
Whoops ! Just took a look and their project plan shows production starting in April 2025. I’m not holding my breath. However, besides the 3,700+ backers they had on Kickstarter, they’ve now accumulated over 5,100+ backers on Indiegogo as well. All of these at $1,000 or more. Barnum was right.
A small correction about Argos – “The machine itself has bluetooth built in. No need for anything else to connect to the app and get the information about boiler temp, group head temp, brew set temp, and water level status. More info becomes available with bluetooth enabled scale and the optional transducer”.