May be launching on Kickstarter Mid March and at USD $1.5k. A hybrid with a little bit of Decent and a little bit of Strietman. https://youtu.be/N-dxaLZTfGc At that price I'd probably back it. With four temperature sensors, built in scale, stop by weight, and more, it looks very well thought out. Seems to be a fully functioning working prototype which is encouraging. I would like to see a dedicated tablet with stand (like the Decent) on top to avoid having to hold it by hand. But that is easy enough with a tablet stand. Tom like.

That looks good! I was talking to a friend yesterday about something similar - I haven't seen this before, mind - Where for a compact version of the Nurri or the V Evo, you could have one boiler holding water under pressure for steam purposes. Then a heat exchanger would fill the group, but would also mix cold water with it. As the group is heated and with a sensor in it, the user could see the temperature of the water inside the piston in real time. Once it reaches the set temperature and it's stable, the user can simply release the lever and pull the shot -this would then make the brew boiler redundant. I'm no engineer, so I don't even know if that's even a possibility. But it would be a really neat machine. I'd be all over it.

@"tompoland"#p36554 Forgive me mate but where is the Strietman bit??

@"Amberale"#p36560 The group (that you fill in manually with a kettle) resembles the Strietman, in my opinion.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p36561 Have you got an approximate time in the video? I couldn't be stuffed watching them carry on for 30 minutes with a phone/tablet.

> @"tompoland"#p36554 I would like to see a dedicated tablet with stand (like the Decent) on top to avoid having to hold it by hand. But that is easy enough with a tablet stand. As an accountant, I applaud their effort to make their software compatible with all the mainstream tablets and thereby avoid the not insignificant cost of providing a dedicated tablet and so keeping the overall price lower. I like it a lot; but not having a boiler, it is not able to do steam, which could be a downer for those liking milky drinks?

> @"jrling"#p36578 which could be a downer for those liking milky drinks? Good point. Definitely a downer for milk coffee drinkers. Like the Strietman or Flair. Espresso only. Some buy separate milk heater/frothers but it's not ideal. PS different makes/models of tablets can be used with the Decent too.

@"tompoland"#p36580 Can you imagine a world where you would sell your CT2 to own this?

@"Amberale"#p36583 not with the Decent and a Nurri sitting on my bench either side of the Streitman. Not trying to be a smart xxrse, it's just that the Meticulous wouldn't really bring anything extra to the bench. It really does look terrific and if I didn't have the Decent it would be seriously tempting. All of which is to say that I've thought about it more since my original post and I won't be backing it. Having had a lot of machines and grinders come and go, I'm going to settle down for a while, I hope. (Other than a couple on pre-order being the Argos and x-Bloom 😀 )

Meticulous

Raja123

MediumRoastSteam Have you got a unit on order? If so, you’d be better of clearing up your confusion directly on EAF.

MediumRoastSteam

Raja123 - no. I don’t. I don’t want one. 👍

I’m just going by what’s been reported here. Could you please tell me when “Update 18” was issued? This would clarify a few things.

Edit: no need. Update was issued September 7th. Hopefully there should be a new update soon about the shipment.

Raja123

Ahh , that kind of interest. I see.

Maybe you can bookmark the site or whatever, and check in periodically.

MediumRoastSteam

Raja123 I’m not sure what you are on about here. I’m just trying to get a realistic picture of the project delivery considering it had plenty of speculation and setbacks. No hidden agenda. I quite like the idea of the meticulous and I am a fan of innovation - but it’s not the machine for me. I like milk based drinks.

Putting an image (rather than a link, considering it’s in the public domain) is not the best as others can’t see other critical bits of information (E.g.: date of the post). That’s all. For instance, if the post date was yesterday, then the dates would be for the next year. But the post was before he 12th, so we now know it’s for this year.

If you have pre-ordered one, I wish you good luck, and would definitely like to hear your feedback. 👍

Raja123

I haven’t ordered one, hence my advice that if curiosity is really that passionate and intense, going to the main source is better for staying up to date on progress.

MediumRoastSteam

Raja123 if curiosity is really that passionate and intense,

It certainly isn’t for me, not for the Meticulous at least. 😊 I actually had forgotten about it, but your post reminded me of it, and it’s good to know it’s coming to fruition.

Raja123

I might get one if it lands well. I’m only using the Decent DE1 for filter 3 brews, so wouldn’t mind a change. I won’t be posting my thoughts about it here, though. I’ll leave that to someone else (if there is such a person).

Cuprajake

I always thought it was a massive scam given their failed attempts at other products

Really happy to be proven wrong on that one,

It’s an interesting machine for sure

DavecUK

Just relatively impractical, unless you:

Want to have a temperature controlled kettle
not make coffee for more than one person (as it takes a while), if 2 or 3 people wanted coffees, you would all be drinking them separately and for 3 people, yours would be cold by the time you finished.
Always uses a full fill (which is a shame they didn’t sort that before production)
Don’t need to steam milk
Illusory saving on counter space vs a standard machine e.g. meticulous milk, temp controlled kettle and Meticulous all on the counter.

I expect to see a lot of them appear on the used market, if the project doesn’t collapse mid way through the production and delivery phase in December 2025. I predicted it would be around 2 years later than they said (delivery 2023) when they started the campaign and have been proved correct. My major concern now is 2 years extra and unplanned for expenditure in infrastructure, exhibitions, influencers, redesigns, specialists bought on board, 43+ peoples salaries, international travel, whatever the top 2 or 3 have been taking out as pay and bonus etc..

With pledges having been cancelled and the production/material costs still to come, I’m wondering if they will run short of money!

I had concerns back in Aprilish 2023 here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1445-meticulous/141

and here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1445-meticulous/146

FadedFrontiers

DavecUK Just relatively impractical, unless you:

Want to have a temperature controlled kettle
not make coffee for more than one person (as it takes a while), if 2 or 3 people wanted coffees, you would all be drinking them separately and for 3 people, yours would be cold by the time you finished.
Always uses a full fill (which is a shame they didn’t sort that before production)
Don’t need to steam milk
Illusory saving on counter space vs a standard machine e.g. meticulous milk, temp controlled kettle and Meticulous all on the counter.

Same can be said for most manual lever machines yet Flair and others have been very popular. In fact it’s not far off the 58+'s price and offers a lot more room for experimentation.

None of these are an issue for the target audience since it’s likely they’ll have some kind of temp control kettle and will enjoy espresso without milk.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK Want to have a temperature controlled kettle
not make coffee for more than one person (as it takes a while), if 2 or 3 people wanted coffees, you would all be drinking them separately and for 3 people, yours would be cold by the time you finished.

Well… it’s not a temp controlled kettle is it? Kettles don’t dispense water under pressure, so it’s a little bit unfair to say that.

If I didn’t drink milk drinks, it would a nice machine for me. It’s only me who drinks coffee in my household. Visitors… they can have tea or a French press. 😊

BrendaninBrooklyn

FadedFrontiers Flair 58+ = $640; Meticulous planned price =$ 2,000; now available as a special Indiegogo price = $1,350.

BrendaninBrooklyn

FadedFrontiers Most manual levers … nope. La Pavoni, Olympic Cremina, Argos Odyssey, and spring levers Elektra MCAL, Ponte Vecchio Lusso, Londinium Compressa, Izzo Alex Leva, more… will turn out lots of shots quickly, assuming the user is competent.

Meticulous ’workflow on the other hand cannot be improved by competence; the limitations Dave pointed out are built-in.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam If I didn’t drink milk drinks, it would a nice machine for me.

A lucky escape then! If you had been an early adopter, would you still be so positive matey? No one really expects fund raised projects to stick closely to timelines……then there is the Meticulous

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam Well… it’s not a temp controlled kettle is it? Kettles don’t dispense water under pressure, so it’s a little bit unfair to say that.

It’s not, you need a temperature controlled kettle!

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 A lucky escape then! If you had been an early adopter, would you still be so positive matey? No one really expects fund raised projects to stick closely to timelines……then there is the Meticulous

I have no interest in buying that machine, more so after knowing some of the history of the previous projects… So no, not for me. Am I positive? I don’t think I need to be negative. I like the idea of the machine, and I wish them good luck. But I’d rather buy one from a retailer, if I were to buy one, even if I had to pay more.

FadedFrontiers

BrendaninBrooklyn Flair 58+ = $640; Meticulous planned price =$ 2,000; now available as a special Indiegogo price = $1,350.

Meticulous started at just over 1000usd and as I said not far off, especially in the world of espresso where people are paying hundreds for a smart profiler, a scale, some wood add ons or a basket 🤣 Strietman and higher end levers are still far more than this, so relatively speaking it’s not crazy money if this is your thing - a big gamble sure.

BrendaninBrooklyn Most manual levers … nope. La Pavoni, Olympic Cremina, Argos Odyssey, and spring levers Elektra MCAL, Ponte Vecchio Lusso, Londinium Compressa, Izzo Alex Leva, more… will turn out lots of shots quickly, assuming the user is competent.

Meticulous ’workflow on the other hand cannot

I meant manual boilerless levers like Flair, Cafelat, etc where workflow and quick back to back shots capability is often also a common complaint, but you’re missing the point by comparing it to machines that either need temp surfed, cooled between shots, heavily modded or cost considerably more than the Meticulous.

This isn’t for some cafe with lots of customers, it’s for people who want to tweak every element of their shot, look at the graphs and taste different styles of espresso - not dump it in a latte or another milky drink. May not be for many of us on the forum but we can still acknowledge that there’s a bunch of people who want this sort of thing otherwise it wouldn’t have got funded in the first place.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - Oh I see. I understand what you mean now. I think you can let the machine warm up the water itself but it takes ages… So you need a temp. controlled kettle to fill up the machine. I remember now. Thank you for clarifying, and I now understand your point.

And it’s so true about the footprint: I remember when I sold my machine back in the day - a Pro-700, and replaced with a hand grinder, a filter, a kettle, a milk frother etc… It took a lot more space in the surfaces than the machine itself. The only advantage is that I could put some items away, but it’s a total pain in the neck to setup everything every morning.

BrendaninBrooklyn

FadedFrontiers

the actual Indie… special deal price is more than double the Flair 58+; that’s not a slight difference.

La Pavoni Europiccolo, La Pavoni Professional, Argos Odyssey, Ponte Vecchio Lusso are all less than Meticulous; Elektra MCAL is slightly more @ $1,695. All of the machines mentioned here and previously are domestic not commercial; none are particularly expensive. All can, without mods or extra expense, produce at least four shots in a brief time and then steam them too if desired. And levers inherently already do much of what Meticulous promises.

I believe you are missing my point. Meticulous, assuming it ever comes to market and actually works as advertised (two very large assumptions) is still a one-cup maker.

If someone wants to experiment widely, the machines from Decent already do so and do so for continuous servings. You can already do most of it on the Argos Odyssey btw, including graphs, for four cups before refilling and a plumbed-in option is in development.

FadedFrontiers

BrendaninBrooklyn La Pavoni Europiccolo, La Pavoni Professional, Argos Odyssey, Ponte Vecchio Lusso are all less than Meticulous; Elektra MCAL is slightly more @ $1,695. All of the machines mentioned here and previously are domestic not commercial; none are particularly expensive. All can, without mods or extra expense, produce at least four shots in a brief time and then steam them too if desired. And levers inherently already do much of what Meticulous promises.

I mean they’re all nice, classic machines but you can’t pretend they’ll do the same job, they’re extremely inconsistent and don’t offer temp control - hence the temp surfing and cooling down between shots 🤣

None aside from the Odyssey Argos provide close to the control that Meticulous promises (again whether it delivers is a different matter). But to get these features from the OA you need to upgrade the 1.1k machine with a 275usd smart profiler and 250usd scale (both of which come with Meticulous).

I get your point, I’m saying Meticulous is obviously not for people who want to pull fast back to back shots or steam milk. You’re criticising it for something it’s clearly not designed for, it’s for people who want control every aspect of espresso extraction and you don’t get that with any of the other machines you just mentioned for the same price, except a Decent for 1k+ more or an OA for a similar price with smart add-ons.

dfk41

For a company who as of yet, have no income other than backers, how on earth are they paying their wage bill which is getting bigger and prolonged?

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