Meticulous

BrendaninBrooklyn La Pavoni Europiccolo, La Pavoni Professional, Argos Odyssey, Ponte Vecchio Lusso are all less than Meticulous; Elektra MCAL is slightly more @ $1,695. All of the machines mentioned here and previously are domestic not commercial; none are particularly expensive. All can, without mods or extra expense, produce at least four shots in a brief time and then steam them too if desired. And levers inherently already do much of what Meticulous promises.

I mean they’re all nice, classic machines but you can’t pretend they’ll do the same job, they’re extremely inconsistent and don’t offer temp control - hence the temp surfing and cooling down between shots 🤣

None aside from the Odyssey Argos provide close to the control that Meticulous promises (again whether it delivers is a different matter). But to get these features from the OA you need to upgrade the 1.1k machine with a 275usd smart profiler and 250usd scale (both of which come with Meticulous).

I get your point, I’m saying Meticulous is obviously not for people who want to pull fast back to back shots or steam milk. You’re criticising it for something it’s clearly not designed for, it’s for people who want control every aspect of espresso extraction and you don’t get that with any of the other machines you just mentioned for the same price, except a Decent for 1k+ more or an OA for a similar price with smart add-ons.

FadedFrontiers

If there’s extreme inconsistency, then the problem is at the other end of the portafilter ;-)

Let me ask, what exact parmeters do you want to control because maybe I’m missing something? What levers have you used?

Odyssey can use third-party bluetooth transducers costing as little as $50; however let’s say we stick with the Argos $ 1,100 for next batch machine +$ 275 for transducer + $125 for any smart scale for a total of$ 1,500, and without the plumbing option still in R&D, you can make four shots and steam if you like.

All of this may be moot because if their last post was on the level then tomorrow we should see up to 50 customers announcing they have received shipping notices, and a week later the first actual udser reports. Oh, and that would also imply the fund-raising period is over and the price will immediately increase to $2,000 or more.

$2,000 or more for a single-shot machine does not seem altogether sensible to me.

FadedFrontiers

Whoops ! Just took a look and their project plan shows production starting in April 2025. I’m not holding my breath. However, besides the 3,700+ backers they had on Kickstarter, they’ve now accumulated over 5,100+ backers on Indiegogo as well. All of these at $1,000 or more. Barnum was right.

FadedFrontiers

A small correction about Argos – “The machine itself has bluetooth built in. No need for anything else to connect to the app and get the information about boiler temp, group head temp, brew set temp, and water level status. More info becomes available with bluetooth enabled scale and the optional transducer”.

chlorox

Yes, there was or is a patent troll in the picture. However, Decent has not paused nor changed course, so I assume he was disposed of. His claims were mostly not granted patents outside the USA, they were that weak.

I doubt the troll is the problem.

Decent after almost nine years and over 9,000 machines shipped has recently reached the 30 employee mark. Odyssey with over 500 machines shipped and another thousand-plus orders for add-ons fulfilled, has 12 – 15. Meticulous with only press releases shipped has 40 to 45. This does not compute ;-)

BrendaninBrooklyn
I certainly hope the patent holder doesn’t get his way as it would stifle consumer choice. While the decent machines are not what I’m looking for in an espresso machine, their existence in the market is essential as many people want that kind of capabilities and there really is nothing else that matches it or can give that sort of capability that is available for decent money (pun intended). And evne if I’m not their target customer, the fact that a machine with that sort of ability can be readily bought on the market enriches the whole market for everyone else too.

BrendaninBrooklyn Let me ask, what exact parmeters do you want to control because maybe I’m missing something?

Yes you are missing something - just because you personally don’t see the need to control variables like flow, pressure profile, temperature, etc. you think machines without these features will do the same job. They won’t and all those backers you mention seem to want these features, so I don’t see the issue here.

If you’d rather have back to back cups and milk foaming, cool well maybe those older machines are better suited for you. You can make it out like a good operator can get the same results, but it’s like saying the Gaggia or Silvia provides the same control as a Decent 👍

It was the same with xBloom, I’d never personally get one but clearly there’s a demand and the company delivered on their backers despite all the question marks about their manufacturing background on here. It’s right to be cautious with these things especially when talking large sums of money but afterwards nobody ever seems to put their hands up and say, oh I was wrong about this maybe they did do what they said they would.

FadedFrontiers but afterwards nobody ever seems to put their hands up and say, oh I was wrong about this maybe they did do what they said they would.

You could equally same the same about the failures, or products that didn’t remotely live up to the expectations and (in more recent years) influencer shizzle around them.

FadedFrontiers Yes and I think that’s well discussed here, for good reason.

Sure, but to be realistic, not many coffee related kickstarters actually end up delivering good products.

Raja123

chlorox Ageed, but as no one at Decent seems concerned and as the actual claims were so broad and so weak, I strongly suspect the troll is no longer an issue.

FadedFrontiers

I never said I didn’t see the need or rather desirability. I said that a $2,000 single-cup device did not seem sensible.

Flow, pressure profile, temperature – yes, this is entirely possible on other devices. John Buchkman @ Decent Espresso has pointed this out more than once.

As for lots of backers; well Timemore and others had their popularity moment too. Barnum was right.

FadedFrontiers

Yep, I went through it with the Streitman CT2. Despite it being an open boiler, saturated group, I was convinced that I would be able to add milk in there and somehow steam it. I thought the designer and all the other users had missed a trick. I was also shocked to find a lot more people I never knew started visiting me, and they all loved coffee. They all had keys to the house, invited themselves in, and demanded lattes or cappuccinos, before even sitting down. The cheek of it! I never knew a coffee machine purchase could be so fraught with brazenly hidden unknowns. Those darn influencers don’t tell you these things!

This just popped up.in my feed:

https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/07/meticulous-shows-off-its-smart-espresso-machine-at-ces-2025/

dutchy101

So, they do t want beginners purchasing then…..

"

The Meticulous Espresso uses a digital motor and high-precision sensors to automatically make espresso, allowing anyone, from experienced baristas to home coffee enthusiasts, to achieve control over the brewing process"

dutchy101

It was starting to look interesting and then this happened …..

Oh no!!