A small correction about Argos – “The machine itself has bluetooth built in. No need for anything else to connect to the app and get the information about boiler temp, group head temp, brew set temp, and water level status. More info becomes available with bluetooth enabled scale and the optional transducer”.
Meticulous
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I recall reading that somebody with a patent had sent a cease and desist letter of demand to meticulous and decent or something along those lines - do i recall that right? If that is true then that seems to be the biggest threat this project will face as they may have to redirect funds to pay for legal representation instead.
Yes, there was or is a patent troll in the picture. However, Decent has not paused nor changed course, so I assume he was disposed of. His claims were mostly not granted patents outside the USA, they were that weak.
I doubt the troll is the problem.
Decent after almost nine years and over 9,000 machines shipped has recently reached the 30 employee mark. Odyssey with over 500 machines shipped and another thousand-plus orders for add-ons fulfilled, has 12 – 15. Meticulous with only press releases shipped has 40 to 45. This does not compute ;-)
BrendaninBrooklyn
I certainly hope the patent holder doesn’t get his way as it would stifle consumer choice. While the decent machines are not what I’m looking for in an espresso machine, their existence in the market is essential as many people want that kind of capabilities and there really is nothing else that matches it or can give that sort of capability that is available for decent money (pun intended). And evne if I’m not their target customer, the fact that a machine with that sort of ability can be readily bought on the market enriches the whole market for everyone else too.
BrendaninBrooklyn Let me ask, what exact parmeters do you want to control because maybe I’m missing something?
Yes you are missing something - just because you personally don’t see the need to control variables like flow, pressure profile, temperature, etc. you think machines without these features will do the same job. They won’t and all those backers you mention seem to want these features, so I don’t see the issue here.
If you’d rather have back to back cups and milk foaming, cool well maybe those older machines are better suited for you. You can make it out like a good operator can get the same results, but it’s like saying the Gaggia or Silvia provides the same control as a Decent 👍
It was the same with xBloom, I’d never personally get one but clearly there’s a demand and the company delivered on their backers despite all the question marks about their manufacturing background on here. It’s right to be cautious with these things especially when talking large sums of money but afterwards nobody ever seems to put their hands up and say, oh I was wrong about this maybe they did do what they said they would.
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FadedFrontiers The Decent is a coffee machine. It makes coffee from whatever you put into it…..like an oven. The variables it allows you to control are great. What about trying to achieve constant level with bean roasting, grinding, distribution, tamping etc etc…..until you can control those, the Decent is as effective as the UK with its circa 1% contribution to net zero, reaching it first with all of its hypocrisy.
Whether you think you can or whether you think you cannot, you are probably right anyway.
FadedFrontiers but afterwards nobody ever seems to put their hands up and say, oh I was wrong about this maybe they did do what they said they would.
You could equally same the same about the failures, or products that didn’t remotely live up to the expectations and (in more recent years) influencer shizzle around them.
DavecUK You could equally same the same about the failures, or products that didn’t remotely live up to the expectations and (in more recent years) influencer shizzle around them.
Yes and I think that’s well discussed here, for good reason.
FadedFrontiers Yes and I think that’s well discussed here, for good reason.
Sure, but to be realistic, not many coffee related kickstarters actually end up delivering good products.
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I’m sure this thread will help lots of people find out they cant add milk. Perhaps there will be some new members. At the very least, it gets the forum traffic up a bit, repeating the same thing over and over, even if it is ad nauseam.
chlorox Ageed, but as no one at Decent seems concerned and as the actual claims were so broad and so weak, I strongly suspect the troll is no longer an issue.
I never said I didn’t see the need or rather desirability. I said that a $2,000 single-cup device did not seem sensible.
Flow, pressure profile, temperature – yes, this is entirely possible on other devices. John Buchkman @ Decent Espresso has pointed this out more than once.
As for lots of backers; well Timemore and others had their popularity moment too. Barnum was right.
Yep, I went through it with the Streitman CT2. Despite it being an open boiler, saturated group, I was convinced that I would be able to add milk in there and somehow steam it. I thought the designer and all the other users had missed a trick. I was also shocked to find a lot more people I never knew started visiting me, and they all loved coffee. They all had keys to the house, invited themselves in, and demanded lattes or cappuccinos, before even sitting down. The cheek of it! I never knew a coffee machine purchase could be so fraught with brazenly hidden unknowns. Those darn influencers don’t tell you these things!
4 months later
This just popped up.in my feed:
https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/07/meticulous-shows-off-its-smart-espresso-machine-at-ces-2025/
So, they do t want beginners purchasing then…..
"
The Meticulous Espresso uses a digital motor and high-precision sensors to automatically make espresso, allowing anyone, from experienced baristas to home coffee enthusiasts, to achieve control over the brewing process"
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
still think its dodgy given the history of the maker, maybe they will sell some who knows
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -