Cuprajake It’s getting a hell of a push from most people on YouTube, I think what most are worried about is it never coming to light, like the failed chess board and that money pledged is being spent elsewhere.
You can understand someone like Dave who works with manufacturers in the industry having doubts when he know how hard it is for established businesses to make products..
Raja123 are you part of the meticulous team?
No.
Wouldn’t get so wound up about it then 👍
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Raja123 Lets be clear, they have some influencers on the payroll and a massive team. As for beta testers being paid…I never said anything about beta testers?
A lot of the money is going to disappear in wages, premises, exhibitions, design, prototyping CNC work, trying to set up a proper production line, support desk etc.. etc.. and various other payments for people who don’t come cheap.
Much of the money raised is going to disappear in that black hole and the longer the project runs over time, the more of that initial Kickstarter money will be sucked away. They stated dec 23 to deliver a product, I will be speechless and have to find a hat to eat if they deliver on time. I suspect it could be at least Dec24 and backers almost certainly wont get the product they have dreamt up in their own minds.
Plus they have all those stretch goals and Meticulous Milk and goodness knows what next to deliver, that takes time away from the main product, or they need to hire more people.
The machine “looks” all modern minimalist and interesting…but really I can see it being a novelty for a while before it turns into a major PITA to use. Imagine a 2 mates drop round and are offered a coffee.
Kettles, small drip tray, and a long time between shots from everything I have seen so far. I tried to imagineer myself using something like that and realised quickly it’s not going to be fun and I think that could be true for a lot of backers.
I think right now, is going to be an acid test for crowdfunding. Naming two projects, Timemore and Meticulous, they really do seem to have caught the backers eyes and there is so much fervour, passion, stupidity and guff flying around, that where project meets reality, Unicorns have been brought back to life. For me, you have to be able to view any project and work out good points and bad points, work out what chance there is of success. It seems that the younger person, instead of sifting through the available material just believes and wants to believe, whatever is claimed by the host is true.
Look at the Odyssey Argos. The idea is brilliant. The project is not massively late but the months are adding up. An update released yesterday with 3 changes (Heating element seal, Fill tube alignment, CE / EMI compliance). The first two are relatively easy to fix but the third could see ping pong being played for some time. I really do hope that they resolve all issues very quickly. They have 50+ units ready to roll when the green light turns. They have been 100% transparent with their problems and answers and I personally think that is why the public have been so forgiving.
I think my wallet will stay firmly shut for the foreseeable future. If Timemore and Meticulous both make it, then perhaps that will restore some confidence, to myself anyway. meanwhile, I sit and watch and wait.
DavecUK Lets be clear, they have some influencers on the payroll and a massive team. As for beta testers being paid…I never said anything about beta testers?
Hi Dave,
I asked because I’d mentioned whether you were interested in beta testing the Meticulous. Other posts I’d made also mentioned that Meticulus did indeed have beta testers that aren’t influencers in the context of the discussions in this thread. Those beta testers can provide good feedback, and from what I have experienced from them thus far, they are not jaded or inclined to dress things up. I couldn’t see how sampling influencers and having employees equates to relegating the need for genuine beta testers, so I pulled that thread when you presented it.
I decided not to back the Met because of the kettle workflow. But, I still appreciate some of the innovation and how it may drive the industry forward. As with all Kickstarter campaigns, risks are involved, and there will likely be delays in achieving targets. However, I can’t be strident about things I don’t know as reasonable facts. I’m also not overly fixated on continually stating the obvious or encouraging people to be balanced, so I’ll bow out of the discussion.
-Raja
Raja123 I asked because I’d mentioned whether you were interested in beta testing the Meticulous. Other posts I’d made also mentioned that Meticulus did indeed have beta testers that aren’t influencers in the context of the discussions in this thread.
I am not interested in Beta testing, I don’t have the time with other things I have on. Also sounds as if they have plenty of people testing and doing whatever. As you correctly state, with Kickstarter projects there are risks. I am a little perturbed by their potential customers inventiveness in providing answers features and facilities that are not actually in the project description. From some the support even seems almost too much?
There is also not much factual evidence being presented, for me that’s a little worrying, but perhaps I simply haven’t seen it.
e.g. how long exactly does it take to heat room temperature water to shot temp…does the portafilter have to be warmed?
If you use a kettle, how long does it take exactly to be ready for a shot?
These are exactly the same type of questions I have for the Timemore Kickstarter project.
Watched lance vid from the live stream.
The principal of the machine is very good, he’s version 8 and said they are on 10 now,
What worries me is his machine was set to 89 for espresso his scace showed 83/84 out the pf.
There are still a tonne of changes to make and it’s due for release in Dec
He did address the whole failed kick starter thing.
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Cuprajake What worries me is his machine was set to 89 for espresso his scace showed 83/84 out the pf
Why set to 89C if traditionally for a medium/light the temperature is around 92-94C?
Maybe the machine can’t keep up? Would be interesting to see a future version if this is addressed.
DavecUK The machine “looks” all modern minimalist and interesting…but really I can see it being a novelty for a while before it turns into a major PITA to use. Imagine a 2 mates drop round and are offered a coffee.
Latte please (sorry, doesn’t steam milk)
Americano then, OK I’ll put on the kettle
7-10 minutes later, what would you like, oh I’ll have an expresso
7- 10 minutes later, you make your own coffee
Clean up, and your left thinking, that was a ball acheKettles, small drip tray, and a long time between shots from everything I have seen so far. I tried to imagineer myself using something like that and realised quickly it’s not going to be fun and I think that could be true for a lot of backers.
Those problems aren’t unique to Meticulous, the Flair isn’t good for back to back drinks but people still like and buy them.
Exactly. It would be a perfect machine for me. I could even pair it with an nano foamer or whatever. No one drinks coffee in my house but me, and guests can have coffee from a Moka pot, for example.
But for $1,500 or whatever it is… I’ll keep my Elizabeth thanks!
I do like the idea of being able to just pour water from a kettle into the group. This would mean I could just use tap water or from a Brita Filter, but not need to go thought lengths to make my own water so it’s boiler safe.
Temperature stability might be a problem though, as shown.
Think I’m batting 4 wins and 2 losses with KS now. Assuming the xBloom is delivered, which seems likely.
One loss was for the x-bar espresso device. $200 maybe? Reviews by influencers were positive but then they simply disappeared and all we got was radio silence. That one appeared to stumble in going from prototype to production. Covid probably did not help.
The second was due to me being dumb and basing my pledge on images rather than seeing a video of a working prototype. Not coffee related. $180 maybe. Turned out that one was a blatant rip off.
The latter type of loss is my concern with crowd sourcing.
The goal is reached, pledges collected and then presumably the money, minus KS fees, is deposited into the private bank account of the project owner.
In the case of a proven manufacturer with many shareholders and board governance, that’s a safer bet. Although such companies normally raise capital privately.
But where we have one individual who relatively quickly finds $5 million (?) dollars in his bank account, I have to confess to having concerns.
In the case of Meticulous, concern #1 is the Chess KS project that raised $2 million (?) and years later has not been delivered.
Concern #2 is the temptation to take the money and simply fudge a failure by stretching out excuses over a few years while living the high life. I’m not aware of any federal requirement for transparency or accountability with KS projects. And even if there was, the power to prosecute based on one country’s laws weakens considerably once the money and the owner relocate to another country.
But assuming the above two concerns are not an issue i.e. the project owners are ethical people, concern #3 is putting $5 million (?) into the hands of someone who is not experienced in bringing thousands of machines to market from a prototype that is clearly not yet fully sorted.
The extraordinay success of the Timemore and Meticulous KS projects have magnified what were minor concerns before, to what are now major concerns, as least in my mind.
It was different when the individual pledge amounts and the total amounts raised were smaller. I may not be concerned about a firecracker going off on my front doorstep, but I would be very concerned about a bomb going off.
The KS game has changed.
Re Kickstarter, I saw a post today saying timemore will not be shipping to some countries because of the cost. But they are not going to release this list till the deadline has passed ..not sure if true.
I just don’t like a platform were you have no comeback. There’s no distance selling laws, they could send you anything 😔
Think it preys on everyone wanting a bargain.
I’ve bought used most my life and have been burnt some times, so I’ve always looked at if it’s less than 25% saving buy new, get a warranty.
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With regards to timemore… aren’t they a stablished company? Would they really risk of “doing a runner” or upsetting a very large customer base? Or maybe I’m too naïve.
Nah they wouldn’t do a runner, I’d say they probably underestimated how many backers they would get lol.
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MediumRoastSteam based on my post? If so, then aplogies for any ambiguity. No, I wasn’t referring to Timemore in my list of concerns. I mentioned them only to illustrate the sheer size of recent KS pledges.
Sorry be me mixing stuff up lol as I mentioned TM in the meticulous thread 👍
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tompoland - No, not your post :-) 👍
Just watched the most recent video from LH on the Met where the ubiquitous failure of the temperature was once again glossed over with “that doesn’t matter because Carlos said he’s changing it”.
That’s the 4th time I’ve heard a comment like that from a reviewer.
That is a concern. And this is coming from me, the guy who can normally be relied on to keep his rose coloured spectacles firmly in place.
