JHCCoffee IF I were to head down this path (there would need to be significant net benefits to do so

Despite all the magic and mystique surrounding those machines, a lever is no silver bullet - just be mindful of that to avoid disappointments.

If I were you… I’d visit a retailer, or a friend, or someone who has a machine you are looking to buy and try it out first. Easily said than done, I know.

Also, for what’s worth… I had a Gaggia Classic, Profitec 700, 2 La Pavoni(s) and the Elizabeth, in that order over the past 10 years or so. The Elizabeth is the one I’ve kept the longest. I do fancy an upgrade, but when I look out there for what the alternatives are, up to the £2k mark (so approx. twice the price of the Elizabeth) the only machine I’d buy is the Bianca. But then you have the E61 which no doubt is a great group, but it has its disadvantages compared to the simplicity of the Elizabeth’s ring group.

My two pence worth anyway.

    I replied in the other thread

    Levers are great,

    I wouldn’t push to finance one if it’s not suitable at the moment

    I’d wait for the new version of the Evo to drop,

    No offence to the nurri but the Evo has superior temp control, which I believe is what mate it so good coupled with that group.

    Any other lever just falls short unless you double the price for a kvdw.

    Some people just don’t like neat espresso. Beans play a massive part as does grinder

    Edited to say I was happy with my bianca but a well priced used Evo came up.

    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    JHCCoffee . I have my daughter’s wedding to pay this year so major machine upgrade costs are just not in the cards.

    Just keep the Elizabeth - that way you get to keep your cajones too

      JHCCoffee Moreover I have yet to produce an espresso only shot that I have enjoyed.

      If you can’t produce a good espresso I’m not sure if upgrading the machine will be that more useful. I’d try different coffees first.

          whinmoor85 I’d try different coffees first.

          Appreciate the advice. Now if you could put a decent decaf in the post to me, that would be awesome. 😁

            I put myself on the mailing list for the Odyssey machine, and will watch it over the winter and spring. It does read and look like the ideal lever for me, and I like the $1k USD price point, if build is sufficient. I also have a setup at our family cottage (a Breville DuoPro machine that needs upgrading, and a Bartaza Sette grinder that needs repair); the Odyssey might be just the ticket; we’ll see.

            And … good news for me: a kind gentleman just gifted me a well used but still in good shape Niche Zero that will replace my cottage Bartaza. It arrives tomorrow. He’s acquired a large flat burr machine and didn’t need the NZ. This is great for me, as I had been hunting for a Niche for the cottage, but the pricing of gently used machines in Canada (or shipped from the US, after duties and taxes) was unrealistic relative to the cost of buying new with warranty.

              chlorox That’s a great score - very generous of him!

              He is a “minimalist” and was just looking to find the NZ a new home.

              As per my thank-you email back to him:

              Its refreshing to hear from a kind hearted espresso lover. Like a breath of fresh country air. There is just so much greed out there. Counter to that trend, I just gave away $300 worth of stuff that worked with my earlier Baratza Sette and Breville setup, along with some good advice (I hope) to help some young folks get going (I am 69 and appreciate the journey that they are going through). I probably could have used the money (it was a stretch for me to buy the Niche and Lelit Elizabeth after my earlier setup died; my wife still complains about it), but it was the right thing to do.

              PS I hark back to the pre-Covid days when I participated in a wine tasting group. Our collectively generous attitude was: a) be as generous as you can afford (as long as it’s interesting and contributes to the evenings theme); b) only consider what you paid for the wine when you bought it, not what it’s worth to today; c) life is too short to not drink good/great wine, d) you can’t drink your good cellar wine when you’re dead, e) its alot more enjoyable to drink good wine with others than alone, f) don’t take advantage of others generosity, so don’t bring or drink plonk. Everyone was exceedingly generous in what they brought. Well, there was one guy who mooched, but overall everyone was generous.

                A fellow here in Canada is selling his advance order for the Odyssey Argos lever machine. He wants “more than cost”, which in my view is nutty (harks back to the days when the NZs were coming out, and were over hyped). Cost is currently $850 US, but the machine has yet to be released or reviewed. He is selling because he bought another currently available lever machine.

                Would you spend your hard earned cash to buy out his position? If so, what would you pay?

                Fyi, I am only pondering this because I need a setup for my cottage. And I had the good fortune to be given a used NZ (at no cost other than shipping from the US), so that has saved some money. Fyi,it has 30 kg through it and has some scratches but otherwise works well. Mind you, it had not been cleaned for 3 years, and was pretty gross inside 🤢! The burrs seem abit discolored but otherwise look ok. After calibration it flows just a tad faster than my new NZ, but the shots from my new vs this 3 year old unit taste pretty similar.

                So I will be selling my cottage Bartaza Sette 270 and Breville DuoPro and buy a replacement espresso machine, which could be a Lelit E (duplicating what I have in the City) or perhaps a Lever.

                Thoughts? My gut feel is to wait until this forum has reviewed the Odyssey. Still, I am curious as to whether you would take up this fellows offer and what you would pay him, given the remaining risks.

                Btw, I just saw another original NZ given away for free, to a student. They are great grinders but the hype is beginning to melt.

                  I’d wait for production.

                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                  Here’s a new lever machine, though I’m not very fond of the mechanism…

                  JHCCoffee I’ve gotten a bit fed up of my Mazzer Super Jolly as cleaning up is a pain (for single dosing) and I don’t have time anymore as I leave early and come back late due to my work… So much so that I’ve kind of stopped making espresso with my La Pavoni… One day I shall own a good enough single dose grinder, maybe sell my Mazzer to save up for it.

                      Sham

                      Have you tried the SJ not single dosing? Drop a days worth in the hopper and see if it tastes ok. On-demand dosing is perfect if you’re short on time.

                      Would be a shame to write off a great grinder because it doesn’t do what it’s not designed to do. Single dosing obviously has its benefits but you can still get an amazing coffee grinding on-demand.

                      • Sham replied to this.

                          JHCCoffee I’ve got an Argos coming and there are now enough people who saw it in Milan or have seen it in action at Odyssey HQ to suggest that it will perform well.

                          It depends of course on how much extra he is asking but he will probably sell it for a profit because orders are now closed until “sometime in Q1”. Given that the shipping of the Argos was originally slated for April 2022 and that we are still waiting, I’d take the “Q1” estimate with a pinch of salt.

                          Personally, I would not buy it if his asking price is OTT. I’d wait until orders open again although you would need to be comfortable with what may be a 3 - 6 month wait. I haven’t seen any indication on whether Ross has parts in stock for the second batch.

                          Also, it may be that you can pick one up second hand shortly after the first batch are shipped. This not a certainty of course but there are people like me, who simply want to try it, will offer them for sale a month or two after they arrive. And there are others who will try it and realize that they really didn’t want a lever after all, and they will sell soon afterwards too.

                          But if he/she would sell it at cost then I’d say go ahead and buy it.

                          In the meantime you could pick up a new or used Flair 58 and simply on-sell it if the reviews of the Argos indicates that its what you prefer.

                              Ernie1 I only really drink one espresso a day in the mornings. No one else drinks espresso in the house. So I can’t really use a hopper or the push dosing thing as the beans and grinds will more than likely go stale. At that point I might as well buy pre-ground and keep it in the freezer to use. I was previously planning on designing a new single dose mod to fix the problems but my hands are tied at the moment!

                              • LMSC replied to this.

                                  Sham You never considered Niche, did you?

                                  • Sham replied to this.

                                      tompoland This not a certainty of course but there are people like me, who simply want to try it, will offer them for sale a month or two after they arrive.

                                      Thanks for the excellent advice tompoland .

                                      I suspect that I may eventually want one, but it’s probably a good idea for me to wade into the lever water slowly and learn to swim with one. I’ll start looking for a Flair 58.

                                      I posted on HB about this as well (they have a long thread long running) and a fellow posted a very good reply point: scalpers should not be rewarded. I agree.

                                      Can I have first dibs on yours, if you decide to sell it after you evaluate it, if you decide it’s not for you but would still recommend it to me? 😁

                                            What do forum members think of the Electra Micro Casa. It looks like a thing of beauty (very appropriate to a cottage). Electra

                                              LMSC Well yes, but can’t justify the cost at this point in time!

                                              • LMSC replied to this.

                                                  Sham If you are drinking just one espresso a day, perhaps, a used hand grinder should do.

                                                  • Sham replied to this.