Another Water discussion

Doram Yes mine too but I’m comparing against tap water which is very hard in my area. I decided Tesco ashbeck was cheap enough and close enough to be convenient. I understand not idea but a compromise.

JesmondJester

Ah I see, you wouldn’t need to use the bottled water for V60 and moka pot, unless you can taste a significant difference.

I find tap water is ok for brew methods so just use the bottled for the espresso machine.

Former Zerowater jug user here. I made up 5L at a time and mixed this with 320mg of sodium bicarbonate to bring alkalinity up to the desired level. I did this for a year.

Since getting my Skuma I’m feeding the machine with RO water. I haven’t checked alkalinity, but the coffee tastes good to me and I’m hoping I’m getting enough drainage from the service boiler daily (about ¾ cups of tea a day) to keep scale away

Is there much taste difference between Brita filtered tap water, and bottled water, when brewed as espresso ? We’re in a soft-water area, so no real need to use bottled but I’m curious how much taste difference people find when switching.

It was all too complicated for me so decided to use bottled, picking some 2 L bottles of Ashbeck in Tesco the label said Calcium 11mg, magnesium 3.5mg residue 85mg, looking at the 5 L bottle that said 17, 5 and 140. Curiously both were bottled at source in Armathwaite, so how does that work? Checking my Waitrose 2 L Lockhills the label exactly matches the Tesco 5L bottle. Does water change it’s composition according to the size of bottle and can water from two different sources have exactly the same composition.

SurreyAlan Drawn from different places/springs from the same aquifer? Maybe tested at different times?

No the water won’t change composition based on bottle size.

Doram TDS doesn’t indicate scaling potential, because it’s the calcium, magnesium (total hardness) and the alkalinity (temporary hardness - the ability for the total hardness to deposit) that are factors here.

TDS is everything in the water, a lot of which won’t affect scaling.

The parties mentioned are just using common parlance and units in their analysis, nothing unusual in what they are saying.

Doram Old Ashbeck, low scaling potential but also low alkalinity & pH so erring more to corrosive (outside typical recommendations).
Latest Ashbeck still low scaling potential (but still able to scale in a steam boiler eventually) less tendency to be corrosive, due to slightly higher alkalinity & pH (lowest end of typical recommendation).

It’s always a trade off of scaling vs corrosiveness.

MWJB Doram Old Ashbeck, low scaling potential but also low alkalinity & pH so erring more to corrosive (outside typical recommendations).
Latest Ashbeck still low scaling potential (but still able to scale in a steam boiler eventually) less tendency to be corrosive, due to slightly higher alkalinity & pH (lowest end of typical recommendation).

It’s always a trade off of scaling vs corrosiveness.

Thanks again. My boiler is stainless steel, so I believe corrosion isn’t an issue for me? Taste wise I don’t think I can tell the difference (from my own experimentation), so not too bothered about that either.

I’m left with scaling potential. Can you maybe put some numbers on the difference between old and new Ahsbeck? I know it’s not as simple and straight forward as two numbers or a percent point, but still - 85 vs 140 TDS is something that my mind is able to understand. Is there any other way to quantify the difference in scaling potential so I know what I’m facing if I continue to use Ashbeck compared to what I had before?

Rob1

Thanks! I will try to use the calculator and hopefully get a grasp of this.

Doram

Alkalinity
Minimum recommendation 40mg/L (ppm)
Old Ashbeck 20.5
Current Ashbeck 38

Total hardness
Minimum recommendation 50mg/L (ppm)
Old Ashbeck 42
Current Ashbeck 63

LSI at 95C
Old Ashbeck -1.46 to -1.64 mild to moderate corrosion, treatment may be needed.
Current Ashbeck -0.62 to -0.72 none to mild corrosion

I can’t comment as to whether your boilers are impervious to corrosion. How often do you check them?
Seem pretty moot anyway, how are you going to buy old Ashbeck going forward?

MWJB

Thanks. It doesn’t sound too bad when you put it this way. :-)

Last time I took out the mushroom I didn’t see any signs of scale. I will keep my eyes peeled and see how it goes.

I don’t check the boiler (don’t know how).

And I didn’t understand the question about how to buy Ashbeck going forward (is there more than one option?).

Doram I meant that if the water make up has changed in Ashbeck & you continue to buy it, you can only buy what’s currently on offer (once all the old batches run out).

Have a look at the link on this post it has a simple spreadsheet for direct dosing. Some £20 salesw and you can make your own TWW sachets. The volume of powder is tiny!!

That quantity is the 0.168g for a simple baking soda only water