Let me first start by saying, I don't have an 'ology' and therefore I am not a scientist. Secondly, make yourself a coffee - you'll need it. I am vaguely hopeful that someone might stumble over this after I have been given the answer I am looking for and it might work for them too. Maybe they feel as clueless as I do despite my best efforts! What I am is a bloke who, when he turns on the tap, can smell the chloride in his water. Other times the water looks very cloudy. I like the taste of my water to drink and enjoy the coffee I drink for the most part. On this everlasting journey of coffee discovery, I am slowly trying to improve all aspects of my coffee making by honing my skills, purchasing better equipment, better coffee and now - investing in better water. Importantly, as I scrape together enough pennies to buy a better machine than my £30 off gumtree Gaggia New Baby, I want to make sure the water I will use will give me the best tasting cup and do the least harm to my new machine. Given this machine is months off, I figure I have the time now to find what works best from a water point of view. I brew with a moka pot, Aeropress, V60, French press and the Gaggia and intend to use the same water for all methods. I bet there is someone wonderful out there that changes their water for each method right? I've watched a few videos, read the relevant bits of both of Hoffman's books, read numerous posts on ~~various coffee forums~~ this very fine forum and all in all I am perplexed. The key for me is to find a relatively inexpensive method to get the best possible water. By inexpensive, I mean that I am not installing new taps, water filtration devices etc. to my mains water supply. A Brita type filter, Zero Water filter to which I then supplement the water with…..er, supplements or some kind of recipe water could work I *guess* but I assume RO filtered water is out of my price range. Blimey this is going on isn't it? You're going to ask about my water aren't you? Well, here is the Northumbrian Water Report for my postcode: ![](blob:https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/32557fb1-a5f2-4cf7-bd52-13eb18e46bf3) The water in my area apparently ranges from moderately soft to slightly hard. When I look at the numbers and compare to Hoffman, I think I am right in saying my Calcium Carbonate levels are in roughly the right place, the Calcium is ok, it's super alkaline and Sodium is high. I don't want to be a Hoffman fan boy and I am happy to be led but struggle to wade (pun intended) through lots of information about what is "right" and his information is so accessible. The answer may be as simple as buy a Brita and see what you think. Or that and BTW and compare. Or Zero Water and a few sachets and try them and see which you like best. If that's the case, I'll be back to ask where to get these things cheaper than from the supermarket! If you've got this far and have the will to engage further - you have my thanks in advance.

Well in expensive and a counter top generally don't go hand in hand, The cheapest option is rodi setup, £60-80 will last a year or two. But it means adding under a sink or in a garage if you have space There are other options but I've not used them.

@"JesmondJester"#p40064 Bottled water with the right composition is an option, depending on how much you think you will use. The link doesn't work correctly for me?

I’ve got what I suppose a lot of people would say is an expensive (yes, yes, overpriced) machine. I use Waitrose Lockhills. It isn’t perfect but it’s cheap, quick, zero faff, and if/when it becomes an issue I’ll worry about it then. Take from that what you will!

> @"Ernie1"#p40073 I use Waitrose Lockhills. > > It isn’t perfect but it’s cheap, quick, zero faff, and if/when it becomes an issue I’ll worry about it then. I have exactly the same attitude to Tesco's Ashbeck.

@"Rob666"#p40074 Lockhills is the same water as Ashbeck.

> @"JesmondJester"#p40064 I don’t want to be a Hoffman fan boy and I am happy to be led but struggle to wade (pun intended) through lots of information about what is “right” and his information is so accessible. > > The answer may be as simple as buy a Brita and see what you think. Or that and BTW and compare. Or Zero Water and a few sachets and try them and see which you like best. I don't recall Hoffmann having any information about water. You don't need any sachets of anything with the Zero jug. See if you can get an alkalinity reading (in mg/L CaCO3) from your water supplier. You know the Zero jug water will be 0, so mix your water to get around 50g/L alkalinity. So say your water is 150mg/L use 1 part tap to 2 parts Zero jug water, takes moments to mix in a kettle/jug on scales. A KH/Alkalinity drop kit is handy, you could then check results with a BWT jug too. Making coffee is more like cooking than an ology. Easier than a lot of cooking which commonly has more than 2 ingredients 😀

> @"MWJB"#p40075 Lockhills is the same water as Ashbeck Interesting! It wasn’t the same a few years back, but looks like it might have changed since. Is that the case @"MWJB"#139 ? In Nov 2020: https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/threads/current-nov-2020-waitrose-lockhills-vs-tesco-ashbeck-label-comparison.55928/#lg=thread-55928&slide=0

Sorry guys - I posted what I thought was a picture of the make-up of my water but didn't check the post afterwards. Try this. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/w8H7MG9.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/w8H7MG9.png[/IMG][/URL] I'd be fine to run with the bottled water solution. I probably use 600ml a day at the moment. My main concern with this is the plastic bottle waste and collection / storage of them. First world problems.

@"MWJB"#p40076 Thanks! I like the idea of mixing enough in bulk to use over the course of a week and just do the mixing once. The other thing is, mixing with tap water which has such variance in the alkalinity concerns me. I'd love to know I am using the same water every time, for every cup no matter the method of brewing. And it be cheap. And be easy. I don't ask much do I? :-) I cycle a fair amount and there is quote made famous by bike designer Keith Bontrager concerning the manufacture of bikes. "Cheap, light, strong - pick two". I think this is going to be the same. "Cheap, easy, no waste"

Zero filter jug and third wave water sachet for easy, or bicarb for cheap. Both relatively cheap options and replicable. Bicarb a starting point to let you experiment more.

Another Water discussion

Ernie1

JesmondJester I’d be fine to run with the bottled water solution. I probably use 600ml a day at the moment. My main concern with this is the plastic bottle waste and collection / storage of them. First world problems.

I suppose you could argue that’s a very real ‘world problem’!

600ml a day seems a lot, that’s 10-15 espressos at least with a bit of flushing.

A four-pack of 2L bottles is £1.65 and lasts me about 2 weeks.

I agree about the plastic waste, it’s really not ideal but we’re all both so I feel like we’re doing our bit in other ways 😂

JesmondJester

Ernie1

You could!

At the moment i am having 2x V60 and either a moka or an espresso after lunch. During the week. Probably four coffee drinks on Saturday and Sunday.

MWJB

MediumRoastSteam Both are from Armathwaite in Cumbria, maybe from different sources in the past? Maybe more recent test results?

Doram

MWJB MediumRoastSteam Both are from Armathwaite in Cumbria, maybe from different sources in the past? Maybe more recent test results?

Ashbeck label on the left, Lockhills on the right. Bought the bottles a while back, but if the labels can be trusted, and unless something changed recently - not the same.

MWJB

Doram As you say, “bought a while back”, both labels have now changed.

steve_07

I don’t know about lockhills but ashbeck has changed recently for me anyway and the bicarbonate is now 46mg which I believe is much more boiler friendly. Volvic is apparently the way to go but a lot more expensive than the Waitrose and Tesco own brands.

Doram

steve_07 I don’t know about lockhills but ashbeck has changed recently for me anyway and the bicarbonate is now 46mg which I believe is much more boiler friendly.

Can you maybe post a picture of the Ashbeck label with Bicarbonate at 46mg please? I just checked some newer bottles I have in the garage and mine are still showing 25mg. I will try to remember to have another look next time I’m at Tesco, but I think I bought those bottles only a few weeks ago.

steve_07

Doram mine is a 5L bottle so not sure if that makes a difference

Doram

steve_07 Doram mine is a 5L bottle so not sure if that makes a difference

Thanks!

Oh dear, that’s not great with TDs almost doubled. :(

Rob666

Mine is the same, I just checked. I also notice that the Calcium has increased from 11mg to 17mg…

MWJB

Doram It’s not a bad thing, even now it only just gets into the the ‘good boiler water’ recommendations from SCAA, SCA, Water for Coffee.

Doram

MWJB Doram It’s not a bad thing, even now it only just gets into the the ‘good boiler water’ recommendations from SCAA, SCA, Water for Coffee

I may well have the wrong end of the stick here, but I have to admit that my top priority has been to minimize scale, with less consideration for getting to SCAA, SCA recommendation.

Time will tell.

steve_07

Doram Yes mine too but I’m comparing against tap water which is very hard in my area. I decided Tesco ashbeck was cheap enough and close enough to be convenient. I understand not idea but a compromise.

MWJB

Doram TDS doesn’t indicate scaling potential, because it’s the calcium, magnesium (total hardness) and the alkalinity (temporary hardness - the ability for the total hardness to deposit) that are factors here.

TDS is everything in the water, a lot of which won’t affect scaling.

The parties mentioned are just using common parlance and units in their analysis, nothing unusual in what they are saying.

Ernie1

JesmondJester

Ah I see, you wouldn’t need to use the bottled water for V60 and moka pot, unless you can taste a significant difference.

I find tap water is ok for brew methods so just use the bottled for the espresso machine.

JesmondJester

simonc

Thanks!

I think I will spend some time this weekend creating a spreadhseet and doing cost comparisons.

dutchy101

Former Zerowater jug user here. I made up 5L at a time and mixed this with 320mg of sodium bicarbonate to bring alkalinity up to the desired level. I did this for a year.

Since getting my Skuma I’m feeding the machine with RO water. I haven’t checked alkalinity, but the coffee tastes good to me and I’m hoping I’m getting enough drainage from the service boiler daily (about ¾ cups of tea a day) to keep scale away

mathof2

dutchy101 Since getting my Skuma I’m feeding the machine with RO water. I haven’t checked alkalinity, but the coffee tastes good to me and I’m hoping I’m getting enough drainage from the service boiler daily (about ¾ cups of tea a day) to keep scale away

Are you using the Skuma Coffee Infuser to add minerals to the RO water or just the RO water on its own? I’m doing the former and the extractions taste very clean.

mobius

Is there much taste difference between Brita filtered tap water, and bottled water, when brewed as espresso ? We’re in a soft-water area, so no real need to use bottled but I’m curious how much taste difference people find when switching.

SurreyAlan

It was all too complicated for me so decided to use bottled, picking some 2 L bottles of Ashbeck in Tesco the label said Calcium 11mg, magnesium 3.5mg residue 85mg, looking at the 5 L bottle that said 17, 5 and 140. Curiously both were bottled at source in Armathwaite, so how does that work? Checking my Waitrose 2 L Lockhills the label exactly matches the Tesco 5L bottle. Does water change it’s composition according to the size of bottle and can water from two different sources have exactly the same composition.

MWJB

SurreyAlan Drawn from different places/springs from the same aquifer? Maybe tested at different times?

No the water won’t change composition based on bottle size.

Doram

MWJB Doram TDS doesn’t indicate scaling potential, because it’s the calcium, magnesium (total hardness) and the alkalinity (temporary hardness - the ability for the total hardness to deposit) that are factors here.

TDS is everything in the water, a lot of which won’t affect scaling.

The parties mentioned are just using common parlance and units in their analysis, nothing unusual in what they are saying.

Thanks. This is beyond my understanding. Can you maybe explain in simple terms the difference in scaling potential between the new and older versions of Ashbeck?

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