Shipping July released today. it could of course be an April fools joke. Albeit a strange one… https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo?variant=43187239846019

@"Igm45"#p40972 Not an April fools joke….people have ordered.

Some time to launch! 😏 I see from the specs that it's physically bigger than the Zero….assuming this is - at least in part - to house a bigger motor for the flats?

I still believe it's April fool's, too good to be true….

@"[unknown]"#p41017 Have you seen he full manual you can download and read ?

@"MattH"#p41026 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0081/2076/2450/files/N685_INSTRUCTION_BOOK_ROW_83F_1_080323_WEB.pdf?v=1680015642

Two excellent videos from Jake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdyBJ7TkhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90i5RVoBpo

Niche duo - 83mm flat

DavecUK

Two excellent videos from Jake.

Del_UK

DavecUK
There are a couple of others there now too.

(why does the plug change colour 🤔???)

DavecUK

Del_UK (why does the plug change colour 🤔???)

Dunno? RH Lead swaps colour as well in the starting clip

Cuprajake

Del_UK because I have a white extension lead, which I took out of the vid 😂

dfk41

Can I chuck my hat into the ring?

Right, first off, this is not an engineering review. I was lucky enough to be asked by Niche back in October, to accept the latest version of the Niche Duo. I had to sign an NDA and that was that. A couple of days later, a package turned up and I thought, I recognise that. On inspecting the packaging, it is quite clearly designed with the Zero experience in mind. The packaging has instructions printed on it for starters. Once you open the outer box, there is a strap/handle to help you lift the inner box meaning that you do not have to tip it upside down to force it out!

I received a gleaming white model that arrived with espresso burrs fitted to it. A quick glance through the comprehensive handbook to make sure that there was nothing I needed to be aware of, and coffee here we come! When I dial in a new grinder, I always pull the first shot at whatever it arrives set to and take my reference from there. The third shot was spot on.

16 gms on an espresso setting takes me 16 seconds. I did not suffer from any static, the grounds were nice and fluffy. I believe the burrs originate from Mazzer (both espresso and brewed).

Eventually, I thought it was time to try swapping the burrs over. Again, no help from Niche. They selected me as tester for their idiots instructions, and I feel well qualified for that role. I have made a video that I will post and it took me 70 seconds or so to swap over. You raise the lid, unscrew the silver dial, remove the screw to tighten down the top burr set, then remove it. Push down on the bottom burr set and remove. The process is then repeated with the brewed burrs (these are a different colour, blue) in reverse of course.

I am deliberately keeping this summary vague! I have no idea as to how they get a big flat to be retention free. Having swapped the burrs over many times, and since access allows with ease, whenever I clean it out the retention is minimal. If I remember I will weigh it at some point but as any Niche Zero owners knows, you learn to trust your machine and just accept the claims!

Petre

dfk41 is there some fancy mechanism that does not require the bottom burr to be torqued? It seems like the effort to unscrew and screw it’s much easier than I am used to see at other grinders.

Del_UK

Cuprajake

I assumed as much! Good videos, nice to see it in the flesh next to the Zero

Cuprajake

The Mrs loved me 🤣

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake - indeed good videos, very niche to see them side by side! 😉

MattH

I can see ebay being awash with commercial grinders which have been modded for a more home like single dosing experience.

This would be perfect for me as I like simple solutions of it just working and doing a good job.

Might bin my 064s and then look at the niche when I have finally got a espresso machine!

MediumRoastSteam

@Cuprajake @dfk41 - so the million dollar question… for espresso, how does the Niche Zero compare to the Duo (using espresso burrs), taste wise? I’d be interested in your description of the same bean, brewed at the same ratio, over roughly the same time. What are the main differences taste wise?

MattH

MediumRoastSteam I assume you mean zero vs duo espresso burrs ?

MediumRoastSteam

MattH - yes, correct. Thanks (post edited)

Cuprajake

Well we both drink different stuff 🤣

But I’ve said in the past how I find the zero a muddled grinder, it makes a good shot but it’s rounded and I struggle to pick apart a shot where the major and now duo give more clarity to the shot, the stock duo burrs are more balanced than the SSP were, they were bright, like they peaked the acidity with the sweetness following through.

The duo is a big burr in a small package with all the plus points of the zero

Cuprajake

Petre just like the zero. Hand tight

dfk41

When I first received my Duo, I put it on the bench against the Zero but after a few weeks, I put the Zero away. I felt I ought to concentrate just on the Duo. I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

Ok. So you like the Duo. Great.

You also said you cannot say the taste is better or different. Do you mean you can’t tell the difference between the Zero and the Duo? Or are you saying you don’t want to say it?

And…

With the Zero, did you also find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on or did you ever feel that it could have done better?

Igm45

dfk41 you still drinking predominantly more ‘darker’ roasts?

Ernie1

dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different

This is really useful, and I for one appreciate the transparency. I think there’s inevitably some gratitude for being chosen to test a popular new product and I’d find it hard to be completely objective I think.

The more I think about it the more I realise the Duo isn’t for me. I’m also not totally sure the Duo will see the success of the Zero. Although swapping burrs looks about as easy as they could’ve made it, let’s be honest, I really don’t think many people are going to be changing them once a day. Whilst not exactly inevitable there’s also the increased risk of cross-threading the adjustment collar accidentally if you’re removing it all the time.

So then you’ve either got an £800 brew grinder, which seems like a fairly limited market.

Or an £800 espresso grinder which presumably will be the main audience. I know at that price point a lot of the competing flats aren’t single dosers, but they’re very very good.

It’ll be interesting to see how well it does. In any case I can’t see sales of the Zero slowing down.

dfk41

Ernie1 dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different

If you are going to quote me, then please use the whole of the phrase that I said, and not just part of it

dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam I meant exactly what I said, funnily enough! I like the Duo. It is a bigger version of the Zero. I do not drink enough coffee on a daily basis to really be able to put one machine up against the other, so I concentrated on the Duo since I had been asked to test that and not to compare the Zero to the Duo, if that makes sense.

Taste is subjective and everyone knows that I have kippers for tastebuds! My daily ritual of drinking americano for breakfast continued, followed by a milk based drink around 11am followed by a Hobsons Choice mid afternoon. I am drinking blended coffee rather than Single Origin. At no point can I remember thinking, this does not taste right, it could have done better.

I can generally tell the difference between a conical grinder and a flat grinder, but I think it is testament to the Duo, that at no point have I replaced it with the Zero!

MediumRoastSteam

Ernie1 - I agree to an extent. The grinder seems well designed and offers the option for those who drink espresso and filter. And it’s the Niche, same design principles that speak for themselves.

But it might not be for me either. I understand logistics and it’s easier to make one product, one packaging, one choice, one assembly line. But as a consumer, I might have hit the buy button 3 days ago if it was £700 and shipped with the espresso burr set only. There’s enough waste as is in the world, and having a 83mm burr set in a drawer for years to come, maybe taken out once in a while, seems like a silly thing to me, from my use case and a consumer’s point of view.

Maybe they will re-evaluate that and create the Niche Uno, where you can choose the burr set you want it shipped with (and hopefully they also re-evaluate their overseas shipping policy and remove VAT for exports). There are a lot of grinders coming out at the moment. Potentially not as refined as the Niche, but unlike when the Niche Zero was launched, there are now choices out there on the single dose grinder market.