@Cuprajake @dfk41 - so the million dollar question… for espresso, how does the Niche Zero compare to the Duo (using espresso burrs), taste wise? I’d be interested in your description of the same bean, brewed at the same ratio, over roughly the same time. What are the main differences taste wise?

    Well we both drink different stuff 🤣

    But I’ve said in the past how I find the zero a muddled grinder, it makes a good shot but it’s rounded and I struggle to pick apart a shot where the major and now duo give more clarity to the shot, the stock duo burrs are more balanced than the SSP were, they were bright, like they peaked the acidity with the sweetness following through.

    The duo is a big burr in a small package with all the plus points of the zero

    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    dfk41 is there some fancy mechanism that does not require the bottom burr to be torqued? It seems like the effort to unscrew and screw it’s much easier than I am used to see at other grinders.

      Petre just like the zero. Hand tight

      Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

      When I first received my Duo, I put it on the bench against the Zero but after a few weeks, I put the Zero away. I felt I ought to concentrate just on the Duo. I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

        dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

        Ok. So you like the Duo. Great.

        You also said you cannot say the taste is better or different. Do you mean you can’t tell the difference between the Zero and the Duo? Or are you saying you don’t want to say it?

        And…

        With the Zero, did you also find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on or did you ever feel that it could have done better?

          MediumRoastSteam I meant exactly what I said, funnily enough! I like the Duo. It is a bigger version of the Zero. I do not drink enough coffee on a daily basis to really be able to put one machine up against the other, so I concentrated on the Duo since I had been asked to test that and not to compare the Zero to the Duo, if that makes sense.

          Taste is subjective and everyone knows that I have kippers for tastebuds! My daily ritual of drinking americano for breakfast continued, followed by a milk based drink around 11am followed by a Hobsons Choice mid afternoon. I am drinking blended coffee rather than Single Origin. At no point can I remember thinking, this does not taste right, it could have done better.

          I can generally tell the difference between a conical grinder and a flat grinder, but I think it is testament to the Duo, that at no point have I replaced it with the Zero!

          dfk41 you still drinking predominantly more ‘darker’ roasts?

          dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different

          This is really useful, and I for one appreciate the transparency. I think there’s inevitably some gratitude for being chosen to test a popular new product and I’d find it hard to be completely objective I think.

          The more I think about it the more I realise the Duo isn’t for me. I’m also not totally sure the Duo will see the success of the Zero. Although swapping burrs looks about as easy as they could’ve made it, let’s be honest, I really don’t think many people are going to be changing them once a day. Whilst not exactly inevitable there’s also the increased risk of cross-threading the adjustment collar accidentally if you’re removing it all the time.

          So then you’ve either got an £800 brew grinder, which seems like a fairly limited market.

          Or an £800 espresso grinder which presumably will be the main audience. I know at that price point a lot of the competing flats aren’t single dosers, but they’re very very good.

          It’ll be interesting to see how well it does. In any case I can’t see sales of the Zero slowing down.

            Agree that most people won’t swap burrs often. Get two?

              tompoland

              I think this is where it falls apart a bit for me. If one was going to get dedicated espresso/brew grinders then £1600 could be better spent.

              As much as it pains me to say it being in this category, I just don’t think we’re ever going to see a grinder that does both methods exceptionally well without faff. So I don’t blame Niche for not really bothering to try and resolve that fully.

                Ernie1 dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different

                If you are going to quote me, then please use the whole of the phrase that I said, and not just part of it

                dfk41 I have to be truthful as I cannot say the taste is better or different but I can say that no matter what the bean, I find the resulting drink acceptable enough to continue on.

                  Ernie1 - I agree to an extent. The grinder seems well designed and offers the option for those who drink espresso and filter. And it’s the Niche, same design principles that speak for themselves.

                  But it might not be for me either. I understand logistics and it’s easier to make one product, one packaging, one choice, one assembly line. But as a consumer, I might have hit the buy button 3 days ago if it was £700 and shipped with the espresso burr set only. There’s enough waste as is in the world, and having a 83mm burr set in a drawer for years to come, maybe taken out once in a while, seems like a silly thing to me, from my use case and a consumer’s point of view.

                  Maybe they will re-evaluate that and create the Niche Uno, where you can choose the burr set you want it shipped with (and hopefully they also re-evaluate their overseas shipping policy and remove VAT for exports). There are a lot of grinders coming out at the moment. Potentially not as refined as the Niche, but unlike when the Niche Zero was launched, there are now choices out there on the single dose grinder market.

                    i think it entirely depends upon your budget, there all very valid points, but i couldn’t pay £1600 for a grinder, i couldn’t pay £800 atm, i think if you look at it just as an 83mm espresso grinder then in the uk its not a bad price, rest of the world the markets come into play etc, its a tricky one for sure

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    I would love to know niches reasoning around international orders - I can only assume they dont want to (or cannot) deal with the VAT paperwork. If I was purchasing outside of the UK I would not be happy about paying UK vat and then getting hit again once it reaches its destination.