Continuing the $365 portafilter theme, I give you ... ta daaaa... the moonraker... https://youtu.be/6Xu3pWOPVdA Let the howls of derision begin!

I may as well get in first: with the cost of a unifilter and a moonraker you could buy a new Breville Dual Boiler. Any yet the Ultra Moonraker sold out in two hours. Not sure how many units that was but I suspect it was a decent number. I guess that there is still plenty of money around when they can sell a moonraker for around $US500 which does the job of a paperclip or Dave's toothpick. Mind you, he must be on at least his third one by now. I know, I know, it's better than a paperclip or a toothpick ... or is it? Not saying I wouldn't buy, just saying it's amazing what's happening at the top end of the market.

But then if it wasn't excruciatingly expensive, it wouldn't be a Weber. I mentioned in another thread that I was fortunate enough to have a chat with Douglas Weber when at MICE last year. I was trying to convince him to develop a hybrid grinder but he wasn't having any of it because he didn't think that it would achieve anything more than a normal pre-breaker on a large conical like an 83mm Mazzer Robur (HG-1 and 2, Key) . There's a slight chance to be knows a lot more about these things than me but nevertheless he was very patient with my persistent pleadings. The upshop of the conversation was that he didn't want to develop any products unless it was going to make a difference. Something new or something better or something different. And you would have to say that he's consistently stuck to that philosophy right from the outset. Color me impressed.

While it’s staggeringly expensive, it is definitely a thing of beauty. I’m going to stick with my piece wood with a few needles I though

This seems to be the way the coffee industry is going……god help us!

Weber at this point are taking the pee with the prices The guy is using his apple knowledge very well Fool and his money comes to mind. But hey if you can afford it then why not Ive only ever had one Weber product the bean cellers and they lasted less than a year. Each to their own but this is a bit ott for me.

As a fan of Swiss mechanical watches, I approve.

Question is… those cogs are needed in a watch or a clock. But why are they needed in a distribution tool? 🤔

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p42569 Because without them the $485 markup on a standard WDT tool would be an even bigger ask, even for Weber!

To be fair I do really like it, fantastic piece of engineering and WDT aside I can see it bringing a little moment of joy every time it’s used. Obviously very expensive taken at face value but I suppose the coffee equivalent of a Leica or Patek.

They are defo going for the James Bond vibe with that music… I notice Moonraker has the TM after it.. wonder if they had to license the name (or they have). Love the look - very mechanical watch… but wow.. I like a gadget but would draw the line there ! @"tompoland"#121 There is a standard version you can still buy - and 150 dollars cheaper 👍

Weber moonraker

Pompeyexile

I would be very interested to see a comparison of that fancy WDT thingy against a normal manual needled WDT tool and a bloody good wiggle back and forth with a toothpick WDT to see if A) there is definitely less or no channelling and B) if the flow is really any better and more inportantly C) if the coffee tastes any better.

I ask this because, if without WDT and just couple of taps on the portafilter to level the grinds out works and no channelling occurrs as I have seen in many a videos, is it really necessary?

JonWoo187

Pompeyexile If you have good grind quality and distribution method there’s really nothing to be gained by buying all those ridiculous gadgets. For yrs I’ve been in the habit of stirring a tiny bit IF any clumps happen to show up, but it’s nothing more than to simply break them up. I don’t buy into the fluffing, raking, etc as some wanna go on and on about. Of course those same anal retentive nerds whine about tapping the portafilter settles fines to the bottom and interrupts blah blah blah… Been tapping the portafilter for yrs to smooth out the bed of grounds, swipe with a finger to fill in any voids and then use a hefty palm tamper to finish the task at hand.

chlorox

The rule about distribution is that there’s no absolute rule about distribution. Whatever works for you, works for you and you should carry on doing it if it works for you……

JonWoo187

chlorox No rules with most things in life as well… Once I do a pump swap I will be shooting for 90-120 second extractions with a 20 gram yield max.

InfamousTuba

If anyone manages to get a hands on with the barista hustle autocomb I would also be interested in that. It seems like it would have the fastest workflow of the automatic wdt tools

MediumRoastSteam

Not sure if it makes any difference, or whether it’s better or worse than box standard wdt tool.

JHCCoffee

MediumRoastSteam Not sure if it makes any difference, or whether it’s better or worse than box standard wdt tool.

The few times I tried mine (before my Lelit was sold/shipped) I noticed more (not less) channeling.

But then I followed the vendor’s directions and used 12 needles (4 short and 8 long) and spun it (also as per the manufacturer’s video) 20 fast turns. When I next try it (after my Decent arrives) I will use 6 needles (2 short and 4 long) and spin it say 6 slower times. I think that there was just too much grounds movement.

How is yours set up? How many short and long needles?

I noticed that you did about 6 slow turns.

Cuprajake

Did you have to stand on one leg at the same time…

JHCCoffee

Cuprajake Did you have to stand on one leg at the same time

And hop up and down. 🤣

This will probably hit the espresso toy box in the basement. But we’ll give it a shot.

tompoland

chlorox For me, I don’t find the device delivering better results than manual wdt when the latter is done well and with care. The utility of the former is how it automates the process so that when u r not bothered or have the time to do the wdt with concentration, u can hurry throigh it and yet be assured of some level of reproducibility and consistency.

Mirrors my conclusion, having compared three of them. That Moonraker Ultra sure is pretty though. Wish to heck it fitted over the portafilter wings and had a small handle to spin it easier, like the etsy versions.

Still, like I say, it’s a thing of beauty which is the main thing 😜

MediumRoastSteam

I’ve been getting good results with my printed WDT tool. My workflow now does not involve funnels, and any mess is contained inside the WDT tool box, so no coffee fines on the counter anymore. And… it’s a win win for consistency: 10 spins on the thing (notice there’s a handle which makes turning it a lot simpler).

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam You should bring it next time you visit…..

JHCCoffee

MediumRoastSteam been getting good results with my printed WDT tool. My workflow now does not involve funnels, and any mess is contained inside the WDT tool box, so no coffee fines on the counter anymore. And… it’s a win win for consistency: 10 spins on the thing (notice there’s a handle which makes turning it a lot simpler).

Thanks MRS. So what is your updated (step by step) workflow now?

As for the tool, how many long vs short needles did you install? What thickness? How slow or fast do you turn the wheel?

Are you seeing any channeling or uneveness?Better or worse than manual WDT?

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK I will do!

tompoland

Jury is still out for me on these devices. They are clearly more consistent than a puck rake but I’m not seeing that they get to each corner of the basket.

Consistent but perhaps not thorough.

I’m going to wait for Matt Pragers Urban Barista version and run some side by side tests using an acrylic/transparent basket and video the results.

DavecUK

tompoland Jury is still out for me on these devices. They are clearly more consistent than a puck rake but I’m not seeing that they get to each corner of the basket.

At the price of the moon racker it’s not for me, but cheaper made ones…who knows.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - Dave, are you doing any form of WDT these days?

tompoland

DavecUK like most Weber products it’s hard to justify the cost relative to other options. It’s certainly a thing of beauty but I wouldn’t be recommending it at the current price.

I suspect that as worthy competitors emerge such as Matt Pragers AutoComb (had a play with one today at Melbourne International Cofee Exhibition) Weber will have to cut their price dramatically like they did with the unibasket (roughly 50% drop in price overnight) after Pasedo came out with their HE basket at 20% of the original unifilter price.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam Dave, are you doing any form of WDT these days?

Not really, sometimes I might with certain grinders, usually if grinding directly into portafiler. This is usually to sweep static coffee from the portafilter ring.

chlorox

tompoland

What did u think of the auto comb?

MediumRoastSteam

Another video for those interested. Sorry it’s not top production quality, and my phone is just leaning against a glass so hopefully in position!

And the aftermath. After that I just tamped with the Bravo. This is using the Niche Duo, and, as you can see not perfectly dialed in for those beans just yet. Coffee is Kenyan from Wogan Coffee roasters in Bristol, UK.

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