Yeah
Niche won’t supply another burr, it’s not in their interest. It’s also not in their interest to supply blank carriers, esp when they know people will fit non recommended burrs and while I have no worries the motor will take them it’s a warranty nightmare for niche.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake - yep. I see the point. Will they offer burr sets including carrier for those who wish to try filter/espresso? Maybe they will, and then those willing to swap burrs may just use that. Same for all those who bought the Duo with both burr sets. I bet people will try things out.
Thing is, if they don’t and there’s demand, someone (aftermarket) will. They will simply copy the part, which I bet might cause even more damage due to poor standards and tolerances on manufacturing of those by third parties. Interesting times ahead in this segment for sure.
MediumRoastSteam If I were Niche, I would not supply anything in addition to your original purchase.. It just becomes too complicated. They are in the market of supplying grinders they designed. If you really want to play around, if it means that much too you, then do what @tompoland did and buy two! Most of this SSP chat is pure guff, the sort that forums seem to specialise in
dfk41 you really want to play around, if it means that much too you, then do what @tompoland did and buy two
I personally would use as it comes. I have no interest in spending silly money on a burr set. I don’t know where you got that idea from!
But there are two things I read about:
I have an email exchange with Niche and they say they might offer the separate filter burr set including carrier as spares in the future. Not sure how this will work, but my question was aimed at those who bought the duo with espresso burr set only and in the future would like to venture out in the filter territory. Whether they will or not only time will tell.
MediumRoastSteam I’ve seen a lot of references to burr packing or feed rate especially when brought up with RPM but little to no in depth discussions on its effects in particular, do we know this has a significant impact and if so why?
Cuprajake why do you think the motor will take it when it’s not been tested for aftermarket burrs? If anything the GG burrs stalling in the NZ shows that this is not a given, no matter how well optimised the motor is for the original Mazzers.
FadedFrontiers re: burr packing. I don’t. All I know is that the Duo has been tested extensively and there’s an optimal speed for given burrs. Dave discussed this in one of his posts in one of the threads. I’ll see if I can find it, but don’t hold your breath!
edit:
https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/972-flat-burr-niche-mod/31
https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1713-df64v-variable-speed-ongoing-review/58
https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1605-niche-duo-83mm-flat/96
MediumRoastSteam I personally would use as it comes. I have no interest in spending silly money on a burr set. I don’t know where you got that idea from!
My bad grammar! It was only the first sentence that was aimed at you!
FadedFrontiers why do you think the motor will take it when it’s not been tested for aftermarket burrs? If anything the GG burrs stalling in the NZ shows that this is not a given, no matter how well optimised the motor is for the original Mazzers.
Go find a grinder that will grind green coffee from a standing start! If it will do that, it’s going to grind with other burrs. The HU espresso and the Brew SSPs work fine in the grinder. In fact the Espresso SSP burrs take almost 50% longer to grind, which clearly means the grinder is under even less load with those compared to the supplied espresso burrs.
The espresso burr is the one used on the Royal and is a single/3 phase burr.
Because I’ve used it 1 with SSP and 2 I’ve ground high altitude green beans with it,
From my dealings with niche they were very hesitant to going anywhere near SSP.
Now is that just a supply chain thing maybe,
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Being Devil’s advocate here:
To @FadedFrontiers ’s point, it’s a fact the Gorilla burrs stalled the Niche Zero. So maybe the motor of the Zero is not as strong as the Duo? Or maybe the the Gorilla burrs cause more load on the motor? (Contrary to SSP). Will the Zero grind green coffee from a standing start? (No, I’m not testing it!)
But to @DavecUK ’s and @Cuprajake ’s point, I think it is acceptable the Duo is more than capable of handling SSP burrs given the comments above.
IIRC from Dave, it’s the same motor, same gear box, and custom wound for Duo (hence different). The zero perhaps consume a bit more power than the duo.
Re-load on the motor, I did raise this point / doubt elsewhere on this thread earlier and in my chat with Dave that sporting another burrs set might put more pressure on the motor (and gear box). It might therefore require different customisation, RPM, and prolonged testing for a given burrs set than designed and tested for mazzer. We won’t know unless alternate burrs are tested extensively.
Perhaps, are these the reason why the other grinders have significantly significantly higher motor power and faster RPM? But, some may still stall.
MediumRoastSteam Will the Zero grind green coffee from a standing start? (No, I’m not testing it!)
Dave or James from Niche can test and advise us! 😁
I’ve been told of another forum that the zero can stall with light roasts, I’ve never seen it personally, but it’s possible.
But for me it’s never been a light roast grinder
And if you are ‘into’ light roasts you wouldn’t go straight for a niche zero imo. You would already be looking at flats, the burr set in the zero is a middle of the road for me, it’s good enough for Joe bloggs who just wants coffee and it’s good enough for us nerd who want a bit more out of coffee. Don’t forget, and I can believe I’m saying this, but the zero is a cheap grinder, esp for when it came out.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
DavecUK Go find a grinder that will grind green coffee from a standing start! If it will do that, it’s going to grind with other burrs.
I would have expected the Niche Zero to have been able to as well given the similarities with the Duo, so in that case the Zero is incapable of it?
LMSC It might therefore require different customisation, RPM, and prolonged testing for a given burrs set than designed and tested for mazzer. We won’t know unless alternate burrs are tested extensively.
Exactly my point, not been done and that’s fine but there’s now a rush to create aftermarket 83mm burrs so more will be appearing. Can’t rule out NZ GG happening again but with a new pair of 83mms in the future.
Regarding Niche selling extra burr carriers, that’s not going to stop people swapping out burrs regardless. They might as well make extra money from it and have the disclaimer that warranties are void if using other burrs or something.
The duo has been tested with SSP burrs. The grinder just isn’t optimal for SSP burrs as its be designed round the mazzer burr. That’s all.
Conicals are different to flats, they require more torque,
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake then there’s nothing for Niche to fear, no reason to miss out on selling extra carriers. If they’ve been so thoroughly tested and there’s no reason to worry about the motor handling them then optimal speeds or other taste-related issues shouldn’t matter. You’re always going to have to deal with user error with warranty claims anyway.
The Mazzer 83mms are well made burrs and no doubt handle lights better than the Zero’s 63mms but that doesn’t mean every user will be satisfied with them over burrs designed for them or other purposes, like the MPs which were designed for light roasts over more traditional espresso. If people want to fork out more to change the burrs for their tastes then what’s the issue.
FadedFrontiers but that doesn’t mean every user will be satisfied with them over burrs designed for them or other purposes
Easy peasy……do not buy one, or two then
Variety is the spice of life, there’s like a bazillion grinders so sure people can find what they like.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Guess it’s a good thing you two aren’t the ones making business decisions for Niche then, just constantly defending them 😆
FadedFrontiers Regarding Niche selling extra burr carriers, that’s not going to stop people swapping out burrs regardless. They might as well make extra money from it and have the disclaimer that warranties are void if using other burrs or something.
It’s a double edged sword, IMO. On the one hand, they could make extra money as there is a market for it. I rather see Niche get that marker share than any one else. On the other, a risk of unfair comments and reviews of “I told you so” popping up should the duo motor (probably not meant for any other burrs set) get stressed because of mounting burrs set not intended to be used without full testing, design and customisation. Reminds me of how certain quarters view Zero.
Edit
End of the day, it’s good for the customers.
