I am sure that this argument has been discussed many times before, and will be discussed many times going into the future. What I am looking for, is folks who have either had or got both at the same time. I have. At the start of lock down 1, I had a Clima Pro and a Niche. The Pro was brand new and barely run in. My coffee habit always has been folks dropping in and out in a day, therefore the convenience of running a hopper fed grinder appealed. When you run this system, you have to accept tolerances of probably + or - 1 gram or more. Single dosing does away with this but then a whole new shot routine comes in. When was the last time you saw them single dose, invert into the pf. Level, stir, genuflect etc etc........and all for what? So, back on topic, I decided to put the 2 Grinders up against each other for a good few weeks. The result was that the CP won hands down in most aspects, but the Niche for me, edged it in the taste test. So, my question is, can any other dual on owner, give me their thoughts on the same bean in a flat v conical taste off please?

@"dfk41"#p3294 - I'm interested in knowing the results here. But, it's important to specify what beans one are using, as it might be that one type of grinder is more suitable (taste wise) for a given type of bean and roast profile. As an example, and no offence, as we all know taste is subjective and thankfully we all don't have the same tastes, for myself at least, there's no point the Niche being the "winner" if the beans were dark roasted. I'm not a fan of those, so any results of such comparison are meaningless, to me at least. @"dfk41"#p3294 - I assume your comparison was using dark roasted beans?

Same here. I hope experienced folks who have or have had the luxury of using both will chip in. I know views / recollection based on memory is not ideal. I am looking at light to medium roasts. Edit : I can see myself getting an electrical grinder. Flat or Conical is the biggest dilemma, although my heart says Flat! 😊

The one thing that does concern me is the cognoscenti who make pronunciations on a grinder or grinders, it's performance, the coffee….in a video lasting 20 minutes, and you never see unedited video of: * The grinders grinding shots * actual weight in/out * them opening the burr chamber and to show you what's inside * how you clean it and what really comes out * how you remove the burrs/carriers * the shots made by the grinder using a naked portafilter I personally think the way grinder reviews are done is appalling, and how anyone can use them to make a decision is beyond me. I guess it was similar for machine reviews, before I appeared on the scene and started removing the cases….which is now commonplace.

i cant really talk conical vs flat, but i can deffo say stock flat vs ssp burrs are different again, i find the stock burrs more acidic, were the ssp bring more sweetness and clarity.

@"Cuprajake"#p3311 @"Cuprajake"#p3311 what kind of ssp burrs and in what grinder? hu/multipurpose/unimodal

Yes, I use darker beans, so I suggest a description and photo. Not dark be definition but certainly medium and a bit more. I always take @"DavecUK"#1 as a measuring point and he drinks medium and a bit lighter yet uses the Niche and is a super taster!

hi, 83mm hu ssp in a mazzer major :)

@"Cuprajake"#p3311 What a combo? Sorry for being nosy! How much did that set you back, if I may ask, please ? You don’t have to answer, if you don’t want to. Thx Jake.

the grinder was a 2019 model off ebay im sure it was £240 del then the burrs were $350usd and i dont think i got import tax on them, but could be wrong so about £500 in total, i did have a wong doserless kit at one point, but went to a funne [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/fwI3vUi.jpeg ]

@"Cuprajake"#p3348 That’s a cracking deal for the 2019 model. Well done! 👏

Flat versus Conical

Ixorya

dutchy101 Oh my, the black set looks good too. @.@

@DavecUK thank you for the suggestion and the in-depth review. Really did answer a lot of my questions. I like that the DF64 is a good “all-rounder” grinder. Since I switch between brew methods often. How is your experience switching brew methods? I’ll watch the videos attached to the review tomorrow to get a better idea of the grinder. 😁

Thank you all for the valuable input. I am learning a lot. 😁

DavecUK

Ixorya How is your experience switching brew methods? I’ll watch the videos attached to the review tomorrow to get a better idea of the grinder

It was OK, not real problems that I remember…not quite as slick to adjust as a Niche.

Ixorya

DavecUK Great to know! Thank you!

Another question, is a 30 SGD / 20 EUR / 22 USD upgrade to the titanium burrs worth it? Or not really since might upgrade to the SSP burrs in the future?

DavecUK

Ixorya Another question, is a 30 SGD / 20 EUR / 22 USD upgrade to the titanium burrs worth it? Or not really since might

Lake_M

Out of curiosity I asked Hansung Lee how much a set of SSP’s would be for my E37s (83mm), he quoted 350USD incl Fedex to the UK. There will probably be VAT and import tax on top of that at the border. So not a cheap upgrade!!

Cuprajake

I cant remember if i paid import on my ssp when i got them, im thinking i did

Emc2

Lake_M My experience is similar. I have a Niche and a modified super jolly. I roast my own beans- not very well I must confess. The Super jolly seems to be more forgiving. There’s nowhere to hide with the Niche. Perhaps that’s why I prefer the super jolly!

MediumRoastSteam

This is quite an interesting video:

Cuprajake

And also this that showed most professional could tell the difference blind testing

If you are drinking back to back to back you will/may pick up differences depending on palette but on their own it’s alot more difficult.

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake - exactly. As I said before, my experience was that I couldn’t tell the difference between the Duo and the Zero - not a pronounced difference. But I’m sure if I had them side by side, I would.

Cuprajake

I do think more then ever manufacturers are preying on consumer uncertainty, pushed even more by what’s found on line

That vid of lance is kinda as clear as mud as in he says they are at opposite ends of the scale but then they cross over etc, I suppose as long as the burrs are not in a zero we are good 😬 I really feel for the folks at niche come the time lance gets his duo, I’m hoping he looks at it with a new product eye with no bias of his previous niche zero thoughts.

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake I really feel for the folks at niche come the time lance gets his duo, I’m hoping he looks at it with a new product eye with no bias of his previous niche zero thoughts.

Yeah… That would be a very interesting time. Personally, I don’t think Niche played that card very well, from a marketing/keeping influencers sweet point of view at least.

LMSC

Pricing and offering single flat burr - there is a business case, which is up to them.

Re-influencers / reviewers - I wonder how does one play! Taste is relative; and, how extensive a reviewer is willing to go down testing? No point, IMO, worrying about influencers / reviewers views especially if one were to decide because Niche Zero doesn’t claimed to be not fairing well for light or many end up using finer settings for filter and state it s****!

Edit :

This is true not just for Niche, but for any products in general.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC yeah - But remember, a lot of people just go on google, type “single dose grinder” and then get greeted with some trash with a head line of “The <insert your name here> - My honest opinion”. And they will just take that as the gospel, whatever is said.

Remember that not many of us frequent forums and are informed as we are.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam Remember that not many of us frequent forums and are informed as we are.

That’s the problem. Can’t blame them.

FadedFrontiers

MediumRoastSteam I mean the Zero benefitted from exactly that too, influencers all loved it and no way would it have been half as successful without them.

The issue now is that the Duo is coming out in a very a crowded SD market, a lot has changed in the short period since the Zero first came out yet it looks the same and lacks features of the moment like variable RPM, anti-static ion beams, even chaff knockers, etc.

Cuprajake

not sure re the influencer thing there are alot of instagram and youtubers with duos now. so alot do have them

dfk41

FadedFrontiers Most of the new models though, are not the finished article, but crowdfunded projects. This usually means under developed and tested, whereas the Duo is extremely ready for the retail market

MediumRoastSteam

FadedFrontiers anti-static ion beams, even chaff knockers, etc.

You could argue those are characteristics of unfinished products. If they were finished, then they wouldn’t need any of that nonsense? The Niche doesn’t, so they solved that problem. Personally, after seeing what a chaff knocker is like on a grinder which costs over £3k, I wasn’t impressed. I’d have expected that, for that price, a chaff knocker would not be necessary.

Cuprajake

The grinder landscape has changed dramatically.

Let’s not forget the niche was totally different to the norm

Before it was sold there was no real single dose option

Now there are lots of options

From using a duo, you really don’t need static rays or knockers with it, doesn’t even need rdt.

Variable rpm is still highly debated.

I think the single biggest thing with the duo is that most are thinking it’s no different to the zero. No excitement factor. But you need to use it.

Me personally I love the flat burr profile.

I’m happy with my Evo and the way it extracts

Some people want a 60s shot, spro overs etc I’ve never really tried those types of shot imo if that’s your bag just go for a pour over

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