Flat versus Conical

Cuprajake I really feel for the folks at niche come the time lance gets his duo, I’m hoping he looks at it with a new product eye with no bias of his previous niche zero thoughts.

Yeah… That would be a very interesting time. Personally, I don’t think Niche played that card very well, from a marketing/keeping influencers sweet point of view at least.

LMSC yeah - But remember, a lot of people just go on google, type “single dose grinder” and then get greeted with some trash with a head line of “The <insert your name here> - My honest opinion”. And they will just take that as the gospel, whatever is said.

Remember that not many of us frequent forums and are informed as we are.

not sure re the influencer thing there are alot of instagram and youtubers with duos now. so alot do have them

MediumRoastSteam I mean the Zero benefitted from exactly that too, influencers all loved it and no way would it have been half as successful without them.

The issue now is that the Duo is coming out in a very a crowded SD market, a lot has changed in the short period since the Zero first came out yet it looks the same and lacks features of the moment like variable RPM, anti-static ion beams, even chaff knockers, etc.

The grinder landscape has changed dramatically.

Let’s not forget the niche was totally different to the norm

Before it was sold there was no real single dose option

Now there are lots of options

From using a duo, you really don’t need static rays or knockers with it, doesn’t even need rdt.

Variable rpm is still highly debated.

I think the single biggest thing with the duo is that most are thinking it’s no different to the zero. No excitement factor. But you need to use it.

Me personally I love the flat burr profile.

I’m happy with my Evo and the way it extracts

Some people want a 60s shot, spro overs etc I’ve never really tried those types of shot imo if that’s your bag just go for a pour over

FadedFrontiers anti-static ion beams, even chaff knockers, etc.

You could argue those are characteristics of unfinished products. If they were finished, then they wouldn’t need any of that nonsense? The Niche doesn’t, so they solved that problem. Personally, after seeing what a chaff knocker is like on a grinder which costs over £3k, I wasn’t impressed. I’d have expected that, for that price, a chaff knocker would not be necessary.

And if variable rpm means having to slowly feed beans in after a hot start then I’m definitely not interested

FadedFrontiers If we held the NZ to the same scrutiny and skepticism as we are these other Crowdfunded coffee projects now

Believe me it was!

FadedFrontiers it was wasn’t it? I’m sure Hoffman said he dismissed it because of that

Alot can change in 5yrs.

I was very anti niche for a long time, I had one. Sold it. Didn’t rate it.

Then I wanted a kony but found more unicorn horns than konys for sale 🤣 the zero is the perfect wife grinder. As its set forget

In the morning the Mrs can dose 16.5g pull the leva and she’s done. No messing etc. No faff.

Still think the looks are very subjective

Now the could of quite easily made it look like a lever craft ultra thing, but I’d bet the majority of zero buyers have them next to their breville/sage.

People tend to get a bit caught up in things that often make no real world difference. I strongly prefer hand grinding and of course that’d be the conical approach and if I want a change in taste/texture I approach that with green selection and roast development. Those chasing certain flavor profiles with burr/grinder swaps are just pissing away money, time and effort for minute differences to say the least. I do find it hilarious when there’s so much buzz surrounding certain products and all the talk from the lame YT ‘influencers’ (a.k.a. B.S. artists) then soon after those items are available many of them end up in the buy/sell forums more often than not.

DavecUK well it’s a good thing some people had faith and backed it isn’t it! Comes with the territory with crowdfunding, if you like a project and want to risk backing it you get a potential reward at the end of it under RRP. People showed a lot more blind faith backing unknown grinder manufacturer Niche versus a company with a track record of grinders and coffee gear. I’m glad the gamble paid off, the NZ was successful and the naysayers proven wrong.

JonWoo187

1. People tend to get a bit caught up in things that often make no real world difference.
2. I strongly prefer hand grinding and of course that’d be the conical approach and if I want a change in taste/texture I approach that with green selection and roast development.
3. Those chasing certain flavor profiles with burr/grinder swaps are just pissing away money, time and effort for minute differences to say the least.
4. I do find it hilarious when there’s so much buzz surrounding certain products and all the talk from the lame YT ‘influencers’ (a.k.a. B.S. artists) then soon after those items are available many of them end up in the buy/sell forums more often than not.

I’m going to break the statement into it’s 4 parts.

1. I completely agree, there is a huge element of Unicorn chasing introduced into coffee…it’s the old Daz washes whiter thing and better than before…My goodness our clothes must be so white now we need sunglasses. There’s many useless features introduced, but funny how the ones we really need are not. This is mainly because influencers (I don’t believe) don’t really properly live with the product in that way.

   e.g. machines with push button water dispensing still don’t allow it to dispense water when you turn the steam boiler off, I just had one manufacturer change that…they buggered up the programming logic slightly, but they can fix that. I don’t think this is a feature any “influencer” would ask for. It’s not even a “whizzy” feature, but so, so important.

We are however surrounded by a lot of stuff we either don’t need, or it tries to make up for deficiencies of equipment/technique. Sometimes there is simply the oft unfulfilled promise of better coffee, or being a better person. I’ve tried some very expensive grinders EG1, Lagom P100 etc.. and I am left feeling…meh, glad it wasn’t my money.

2. Hand grinding is OK, but there is a difference between that and flat burrs for espresso and filter (less so without specific filter burrs). A lot of people don’t want to hand grind though. The benefits of hand grinding can be a small footprint coffee setup, or good filter coffee on a budget that’s transportable. I have a 1Zpresso hand grinder and it’s a nice thing to own.
3. To an extent, I think there are some quick wins, but then with the very expensive burr options (SSP) you start chasing unicorns again. Or get very small improvements…where a much bigger improvement can be from better coffee, or technique.
4. These guys are doing far more damage to the industry that people realise (on all levels). It’s a big subject that can’t really be covered in a simple forum post. They are unaware and don’t care, as it’s all about the money. If there wasn’t money in doing it, most of those channels would not exist. Oddly enough at the moment that sort of video is what people seem to want?? It’s really hard for customers to now know what’s what and really get information about anything…until it’s too late, or they find out by personal experience (expensive).

DavecUK . Oddly enough at the moment that sort of video is what people seem to want

Given a choice, most people prefer entertainment to education.

It’s probably been that way since time began.

Have to agree though that in the last few years (since covid started?) the number of YT influencers has sky rocketed. Whenever there is an explosion in quantity, there is a decline in average quality.