There is a new grinder about to hit the market from Bella Barista the T64, **not to be confused** with the Profitec T64. It's a 64mm flat burr grinder, produced by a Chinese manufacturer, I had a prototype and already a few enhancements have been recommended by me to BB so they can fine tune their offering. **The grinder in the video doesn't have an extra movable zero collar, the revised grinder does,** and it means the zero point can be adjusted should you ever change/use different burrs. The BB grinders will have this as standard. [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/P1d9vPj.png] Secondly, the grinder can be purchased with Italmill, Chinese, or SSP burrs. **Bella Barista have decided to only offer it with SSP burrs at this time.** I truly don't know what burrs mine has, but I suspect it's not SSP burrs, even though it's working great! These videos introduce the T64 grinder, it's a nice variable speed flat burr grinder that produces excellent in cup results. It's is being launched by Bella Barista in the UK. https://bellabarista.co.uk/ The power brick you see is for my cabinet lights, the grinder plugs directly into the mains and is 230/240 volt. The grind cup, extension funnel and forks are all for the standard 58mm porta filter and made of good quality thick aluminium, not plastic The grinder is being returned early next week, so any questions, ask them quickly. https://youtu.be/VZYepwWagvw?si=b5Uk_yfMl28Aan73 https://youtu.be/XQLxMeQupsA?si=6tNlNFMCLu-5bFzs Now if you read this far I don't feel it's appropriate to disclose the planned pricing of this grinder in advance of BB announcement. But they will be doing a forum special at a price that if they step up and do what they say, will be unbelievably good and I don't say that lightly.

Thanks Dave, there is a "BG T64" on YT that may be the same. Looks pretty solid. Pretty sure the burrs are not SSP given the color variation but videos and lighting can be deceptive. https://youtu.be/vX-StUEhe4A?si=c44173JKA3buBr9z One concern in the comments in the YT thread was "it's stepless until it's not" referring to the dial drifting under load to a stepped point. The video was front August 2023 and it's normally an easy fix for the manufacturer so I'm wondering if you noticed any drift in the unit you have?

> @"tompoland"#p63075 The video was front August 2023 and it’s normally an easy fix for the manufacturer so I’m wondering if you noticed any drift in the unit you have? I got my unit from BB in January and it was stepped…I (damaged the stepped pin to jam it in, as you can't pull it out), this made it stepless. I did this after realising going in between steps was imprecise, it would possibly "fall off" the steps and move…plus it wasn't mine and would be going back (It actually is being collected by Bella Barista next week). As stepless, it's never moved or drifted at all and the company have been asked to make the BB grinders stepless. Also to add a re-zero ring as they might be factory zeroed, but if people change burrs then the zero may be lost. Also the factories zero might not always bee 100% correct. There is one big difference you perhaps didn't spot…**it's not variable speed**, mine goes from 800-2000 rpm, which is how I can use it to clear grinds without using the bellows. There are some other differences in the video to the unit I have, some small some larger * **The grinder in the video has a 200W motor, my unit has a 300W motor** * Aluminium lid with wood top cover on mine (looks nice, adds a bit of contrast. * The ring that fits on top of the grinds cup has two grippy o rings machines in to it stays in place nicely * The grinder I have it I believe slightly heavier. But they look like they are from the same company and offer the same 3 burr options…obviously I suggested to BB to only use SSP burrs, because they are a known quantity and the quality of construction merits it. *P.S.The Evo portafilter funnel for LSM size portafilter from Norvin (thanks again Norvin), fits a groove in the grind cup perfectly as you saw on the video, making it super easy to use with my 53.5mm portafilters*

How would you compare it to df64 if you have used both? Also any way for non UK customers to buy it without having to ship from BB?

> @"delta76"#p63111 How would you compare it to df64 if you have used both? Also any way for non UK customers to buy it without having to ship from BB? I actually have a DF64 and it in my option the T64 is a much better grinder. and more accurately made. Oh I forgot to mention once it's finished grinding, after 2 minutes it switches off, so they really have thought about the product and the grind cup etc.. I have no idea about availability and retailers world wide, if you are in Europe BB might well ship it?

@"DavecUK"#p63112 - did you manage to find out more about the phenomenon of no static what so ever? Is there anything special? Given high end grinders come with a spray bottle…. This is an achievement in itself, whatever they did!

@"DavecUK"#p63112 if it comes to that I might have to, but would prefer to buy from a local retailer or at least from within EU to avoid tax complication (and warranty also). Great to hear it is better than df64 in your opinions - i know you pay very close attention to details!

> @"DavecUK"#p63112 actually have a DF64 and it in my option the T64 is a much better grinder. and more accurately made. Interesting thanks Dave. Can you shed some light on "more accurately made" and is there anything else that you prefer over the DF?

> @"giampiero"#p63128 Any stalling issue? As I said in the video and description as well I think, **no problems with stalling**. I run it at it's slowest speed 800 rpm, **I don't hot start** and in the video you can listen to it grinding. I have also tried some of @"LMSC"#16 light beans in it as well.

> @"tompoland"#p63120 Can you shed some light on “more accurately made” and is there anything else that you prefer over the DF? not really, it's just more accurate, no o rings to centralise the core as in the DF64, and accurately made is just that, especially in the burr chamber…all milled aluminium and no wave washer. It's just a nicer grinder to use and especially adjust. The looks of the grinder ittself and accessories like the catch cup etc.. are way better.

T64 Grinder From Bella Barista

Gagaryn

DavecUK I show it in the first post in the thread.

But importantly - BB don’t. If you could - they could.

DavecUK They can’t show the grinder in photos because the adjustable collar ones are not in the county yet

I believe they have used manufacturer provided images in the listing? I cover this above. Suggesting that a retailer shows images of the item they are selling is hardly contentious.

DavecUK But keep complaining, because that’s the best way to ensure they don’t bother with something like this again

This is ridiculous. It’s not unreasonable to expect a retailer to accurately represent products that they are selling. Your defence of BB here is absurd.

DavecUK

Gagaryn This is ridiculous. It’s not unreasonable to expect a retailer to accurately represent products that they are selling. Your defence of BB here is absurd.

I’m not defending anything, or anyone…quite frankly I don’t give a crap any more.

Buy it, don’t buy it….who cares. This is why I sometimes think….why bother!

Gagaryn

Regarding the claim of the “sale” price, BB should not be claiming this. They can however explain that this is an introductory price. If I can find this out in 5 mins sure BB could too! From the Advertising Standards Agency website

Use the correct terms for introductory offers
If a marketer has not sold a product before and wishes to offer it at an introductory price which is lower than the intended standard price, they should make clear it is an introductory offer rather than discount. Using scored-out future pricing is likely to be considered misleading unless the ad makes it explicitly clear that the price is the intended future price, because this will imply that the crossed-out price is the established usual selling price

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/promotional-savings-claims.html

Cuprajake

Gagaryn why do you bother coming on here? i mean all you do is literally argue with everyone? you know how the forum can be so why bother?

if you have concerns then im sure bb would be happy to listen to them?

Gagaryn

Cuprajake why do you bother coming on here? i mean all you do is literally argue with everyone? you know how the forum can be so why bother?

No, I made an observation that BB could have done better . That wasn’t an argument, however it did prompt a response that developed into an argument. Seems pretty normal for the internet …

The claim that all I do is argue with everyone is a bit hyperbolic - please don’t take that as an argument!

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “you know how the forum can be so why bother?” but suspect that that might be why I bother! :-)

Cuprajake

people get very defensive - thats what i mean.

theres a great feature for hiding people, i have quite a few on it, works a treat.

delta76

DavecUK i understand. But we live in a world where marketing is almost everything and like it or not BB will need those influencers to push the product, it will probably sell itself once it proves the performance/price but it needs a momentum. Would love to see this grinder to become popular so I can buy & try it

Adrianmsmith

@Gagaryn

@DavecUK

@Cuprajake

The price and the sale claims clearly state against manufacturers reccomended retail price not precious selling price.

In The past I’ve not been a fan of Bella but this time I have no complaints.

If they gave a flying Puck then I’d probably not be an ACS owner.

So you have their bad customer service to thank for me hanging around on here😎😜

Gagaryn

Adrianmsmith The price and the sale claims clearly state against manufacturers reccomended retail price not precious selling price.

Not sure if I am following you correctly - but BB make no mention of RRP or manufacturers recommended pricing and do mention SALE!

Even if they had claimed the saving was against RRP, the Advertising Standards Agency has guidance on that which explains that there must be evidence that the item has actually sold at RRP, and indeed that there are other retailers of the item. As this is currently a BB exclusive and hasn’t listed before it seems neither is the case here. Guidance on use of RRP is here https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/recommended-retail-prices-rrp.html

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK It’s about burr size and throughput. I’ve explained why quite a few times in other threads, search for “burr packing,”.

Thank you. I remember you explained this before, but if memory serves me right, it also depends on the burr cut itself? I remember you saying at one point you compared two different burrs, and one burr took a long longer to grind than the other, even though they were the same diameter.

So I’m assuming that, for this grinder (T64) the optional speed is 800 for the burrs you tested, and maybe likewise for the SSP HU burrs BB is selling the grinder with?

Adrianmsmith

Gagaryn

Sorry I misread it. It just says RRP…….

I suggest you may want to take them to court.

Please do it after they’ve delivered the first batch of grinders if you could find it deep inside to be so kind.

Gagaryn

Adrianmsmith Odd, using desktop browser shows no mention of RRP or special launch prices - simply sale. They should add web content management on their list of things to fix.

Adrianmsmith

Gagaryn I’m going to make a coffee not got time for this shit.

P.s. don’t buy one I’m sure you will be disappointed 😞 then you’ll have to take them to court twice 😜😎

Gagaryn

Adrianmsmith P.s. don’t buy one I’m sure you will be disappointed 😞 then you’ll have to take them to court twice 😜😎

OK, I won’t. You’re probably right. 🤪

dfk41

It does seem a shame that a firm go to all the bother of finding something just a little bit different in a crowded marketplace, arrange to have it tested, arrange for the recommendations to be implemented, then offer some of the first batch to forum members at a better pay price than to the general public, yet for some the focus seems to be bitching, whether warranted or not……

Gagaryn

dfk41 then offer some of the first batch to forum members at a better pay price than to the general public

The bitching as you put it, is simply because BB failed to advertise their product accurately - either in the images or the specs. I don’t believe they are intending to mislead, but getting this stuff wrong is a bit amateurish and I’m surprised you think it’s a “shame” to mention it. Your’e generally one of the first to call out misleading reviews but here you are cutting BB slack despite them being a bit sloppy on this one. You must be getting soft in your old age! 😉

Not sure what better price you are referring to -it’s been £459 for everybody, forum or public since it was announced as far as I know.

Cuprajake

No it’s was £559 originally and you had a discount code to get it to £459

They have since opened that price up to everyone, as they said they would the first 20 were to get the code from my reading

Gagaryn

Cuprajake No it’s was £559 originally and you had a discount code to get it to £459

I don’t think it has ever been for sale at £559 though. The initial offer on here was described as a £100 discount for the forum - and then from 25 March it would be offered to the public with a £75 discount.

However that’s not how things have played out - it’s only been offered at one price - £459 to everyone. This may be an introductory offer and it may go up to £559 at some point - only time will tell…

HarveyMushman

I think I said it somewhere above but I kind of feel for everyone involved here. It’s another 64mm flat from a non-descript East Asian company.

It’s probably the most competitive space in the grinder market and a hard sell regardless of how glowing the review.

Nobody’s fault other than total market saturation probably numbing people’s interest.

Feels like we need something to come along and do a Niche Zero before we start getting excited again.

delta76

HarveyMushman how glowing the review

Depends on whose review. if James H gave it a glowing review, you can be sure it’s out of stock within a few hours.
Lance reviewed the blind shaker and he only stated that the extraction was higher, not necessarily it tastes better, and sales of said tool skyrocketed. I am not a fan of Lance, but I’d be lying if I said I did not buy my blind shaker because of his video. I was always thinking it as an unnecessary tool.
Not sure why the debate of price comes from. I’m seeing 382.5 GBP which means no VAT (+20% and it’s 459). No indication of sale price whatsoever

Cuprajake

Don’t think you can now.

The niche was totally different at the time and imo very competitively priced.

Now if you want a good 64mm you’re over a grand for a zerno or lagom p64

If you want bigger burrs that gets even crazier.

I personally don’t like the rate the 64mm grinders are getting pushed out. Ten a penny comes to mind, and most are fugly

Only one I quite like is the df64v, but they stall app.

MediumRoastSteam

Gagaryn I don’t think it has ever been for sale at £559 though. The initial offer on here was described as a £100 discount

It was offered as initially intended (£559 rrp, £100 off with the discount code for forum members). That was like so for about 4 or 5 days. Only reason I know is because I kept checking and was tempted to buy one.

But on Saturday, 23rd March, I checked the website and BB have lowered the price to £459 to the general public, appearing to have given up on the initial promotional strategy and opening the offer of £459 to everyone.

Edit: just checked the calendar to make sure I got the dates right.

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