I'm looking to make the leap into the world of Espresso very soon. I like drinking medium to dark, going by Nespresso pods and their flavours. I tried their fruity ones and didn't like them. I've narrowed my journey down to a Profitec Go and a Niche Zero. But I have a few questions regarding both of these and coffee storage. Is using Tesco Ashbeck water a good idea? How do I check the Profitec Go for scale? I've looked online but can't find an answer. How often should I descale the machine? Scale on the machine one my main worries. Is using cleaning detergent on the Niche Zero a good idea? If yes, how often should I clean the Niche Zero? Regarding coffee storage, I am looking at purchasing a 250g bag of beans or 1kg which will be spilt into 250g. Is using the following bottles a good idea for 250g storage? https://www.ampulla.co.uk/shop/glass/amber-glass-medicine-bottles/300ml-amber-glass-sirop-bottle-polycone-cap/ Thank you.

Different people go to different lengths on water and storage. I’ve just used Waitrose Lockhills in my Linea Mini and happy to just see how it goes until I see scale related issues. Almost 2 years in now and no issues so far. Some people will recommend reverse osmosis water (via a machine like the Osmio Zero) and remineralisation to create the ideal water for espresso that won’t scale. Storage I use Airscape jars but some people like to use vacuum packing and freezing. I’m not sure you’d need detergent to clean the Niche. Brushing the inside and removing the burrs occasionally is probably good practice but owners will be better placed to advise on that.

@"NespressotoEspresso"#p64860 - Welcome. A few people here use Ashbeck - you might need to descale the machine once a year or so. The Profitec Go should be rather simple to descale, as it's a Single Boiler Dual Use machine. So you should be good. Back in the day I had a Gaggia Classic, I used tap water which is hard as nails over here. Descaled every 3 months. I had it for 3 years, and sold. 10 years on, now having a new life in Sydney, the machine is still going strong. The Profitec Go, in the grand scheme of things, is a similar machine - but a lot more refined. But I wouldn't put tap water in any of my machines now that I am wiser! As for the Niche Zero... It's Zero (or virtually nothing) retention. In other words, what goes in, comes out. It would be silly to use espresso grinder detergent or whatever to clean it. I had one for 5 years and, because it's so easy to take it apart and put back (all in the manual, mind you) it's very easy to keep it clean. Remove the burrs every 6 months or so, use the brush provider to clean and you are good to go for another 6 months. Coffee Storage: It's not only about having it air tight - it's also about not having air in it (headspace). I, personally, buy 1kg bag (or sometimes 2kg), vacuum pack and freeze (or if you have a room that's dark and cool, you can get away without freezing it, specially if you are going to use in the next 1 or two months). Some people use Airscape containers (google it up) - but my experience with that wasn't positive.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p64872 Some people use Airscape containers (google it up) - but my experience with that wasn’t positive. They’re far from perfect. I have a glass one where the vacuum plunger thing slides all over the place. You also have to make sure the beans are level for the plunger to sit level too. They look nice though, and that’s at least 60% of why I buy my coffee related gear.

> @"HarveyMushman"#p64873 They look nice though Mine used to live inside a cupboard, so I didn't care 🤪

I double bag, so i have the bag in the airscape haha

@"HarveyMushman"#p64871 Thanks for letting me know about Waitrose Lockhills and reverse osmosis water. Reassuring to hear thar you're almost 2 years in using Waitrose Lockhills and have yet to see any scale related issues. Are Tesco Ashbeck and Waitrose Lockhills the same? Regarding the Airscape, I might get one and see how it goes. Nice to know that no detergent is required to clean the Niche Zero. @"MediumRoastSteam"#p64872 Great to know that the Go is simple to descale. I suppose what I'm worried about is that the Go gets scale and I realise too late, as the Go has no warning light. If I do need to descale, what descaling product would you recommend? Cleaning the Niche Zero every 6 months sounds good. Will look into vacuum packing and freezing. Also, back flushing with water, should that be done after every use? Thank you.

you dont need to freeze, just dont go crazy buying beans, is the go your budget limit?

@"Cuprajake"#p64885 Okay, won't freeze. Yes. The Go is my budget limit.

Profitec Go + Niche Zero

NespressotoEspresso

Cuprajake Okay, won’t freeze. Yes. The Go is my budget limit.

Dusk

I think just plain citric acid is the best thing to descale. I use Lockhills and can’t see any signs of scale after three years and I only descale very occasionally.

NespressotoEspresso

Dusk OK. Will use plain citric acid.

MediumRoastSteam Sorry if this sounds stupid but… how would would I prevent scale?

What detergent should be used for the backflush? Cafiza? If yes, how many grams? 3?

Sorry for all these annoying questions.

MediumRoastSteam

NespressotoEspresso If I do need to descale, what descaling product would you recommend?

I wouldn’t recommend you to descale - I’d recommend you to prevent scale in the first place.

NespressotoEspresso Also, back flushing with water, should that be done after every use?

No, not on that machine. Backflush with detergent every week or so.

MediumRoastSteam

NespressotoEspresso What detergent should be used for the backflush? Cafiza? If yes, how many grams? 3?

Yes, Cafiza or PulyCaf (I use PulyCaf). Instructions are on the bottle/sachet or whatever you buy.

NespressotoEspresso Sorry if this sounds stupid but… how would would I prevent scale?

No worries. The only way to really prevent scale is to make sure there are nothing that could cause scale in your water. As @HarveyMushman alluded in his post, you could have a Reverse Osmosis system, or distilled water, or ZeroWater (From a ZeroWater jug - just google up). I use the latter. You can then add 0.1g of sodium bicarbonate (Baking Soda) to 1L of “pure” water to remineralise it.

As they say, prevention is better than cure.

NespressotoEspresso

MediumRoastSteam ZeroWater sounds good. After filtering the ZeroWater, is it ready to use for the Go?

Just to confirm, I should add 0.1g of sodium bicarbonate to 1L of the distilled water?

Also, regarding the steam wand, should I use something like Rinza and let it soak for 15 minutes? If the steam wand gets daily use, how often should it be cleaned? I have read about purging and wiping it with a cloth after every use, which I will be doing.

Thank you.

MediumRoastSteam

NespressotoEspresso Just to confirm, I should add 0.1g of sodium bicarbonate to 1L of the distilled water?

Yes. You can make life easier by making a concentrate. Like, make a small bottle with 200ml of water and 2g of sodium bicarbonate mixed in. This is the concentrate. Then add 10ml of that concentrate for every litre of ZeroWater going into your machine.

And yes, once the ZeroWater is filtered, just mix and add to your machine.

As for the rest, you are overthinking this re: steam wand. Make sure you read the manual, and after every use you wipe it clean and purge immediately after steaming.

Cuprajake

You’re over analysing everything,

Ideally you want a water that is not going to scale

I used rodi with the Dr pavlis water recipe using potassium bicarbonate.

Unless you’re making 10 coffees a day imo you don’t have to go crazy with the cleaning chemicals.

Get the machine, get used to it, learn a bit and by then it will be ready for a clean.

You can read and read, but till you have a play you will drive yourself nuts, believe me I know

Tal

Lol keep it simple, your first bag of coffee is likely going in the sink anyway or going to be terrible for a variety of other reasons, so just use a safe and easy water to get hold of to get going with, i.e Tesco Ashbeck.

Then you will stress about puck prep and dialing in first. That’s enough to keep you busy for a few weeks/months. Working out whether the shot is sour/bitter/both, Is it sweet, can you taste any of the notes on the bag? Do you like the body of it? Etc etc.

Consistency is something very difficult to attain I have found, so many variables including your espresso machines temperature stability etc.

For the steam wand. Purge before you put it in the milk to remove residual water. Then steam your milk. Then purge the wand immediately to remove any milk inside the wand and wipe it down with a damp cloth. Simple as that.

Good luck!

Twotone2

I never back flush, complete waste of time IMO.

I clean the group head every so often ie strip it down and clear all of the holes in the dispersion plate with a needle and clean or replace the shower screen, flush the head a few times and have a coffee.

That pulycaff is horrible stuff, doesn’t do anything anyway it’s just more rubbish to buy and store.

The amount of coffee oil on the parts above is unreal, no amount of chemical is going to clean that stuff.

Re the grinder, once a month to clean the burrs/chute etc takes minutes with a Duo.

I don’t have any problem with tap water here in Glasgow as it’s pretty soft if not a bit smelly from time to time so I;ve a carbon filter on the water supply to the machine and occasionally I’ll replace the filter and I mean occasionally.

Cuprajake

With the e61 I used to water back flush end of every coffee making activity, takes seconds and keeps it immaculate

The decent well that’s automated with a single button press 😂

Twotone2

Back flushing does nothing.

Take a look at the schematics of most machines .

My own machine is an Elektra T61 absolutely pointless back flushing it.

Don’t know about that Decent machine, no experience with that, so maybe just a gimmick who knows?

The rats or whatever those animals are look nice if that’s your bag

DavecUK

Twotone2 Back flushing does nothing.

Why do you believe this and what do you believe backflushing is meant to do?

MediumRoastSteam

Twotone2 The rats or whatever those animals are look nice

They look like capivaras (capybaras). Biggest living rodent, and native of South America.

Cuprajake

Wow ok each to their own,

On the list you go

Giphy - Season 1 Fairfax GIF by Amazon Prime Video

Tal

Not sure blocking anyone who disagrees with you is the way to go personally…. If someone is abusive then sure. But a different opinion?

Without going political, you don’t silence your “opposition”, at least not in a democracy anyway….

Cuprajake

Tal when you have been at the end of quote a few nasty tongues like I have in the past year I find it quicker and easier not to read what they write

I have no interest in what they have to say,

Saves me time and the hassle. It’s a coffee forum I visit for fun.

HarveyMushman

Each to their own and I’m not exactly Mr. Clean when it comes to espresso machines but back flushing with Cafiza/Pulycaff etc 100% does do something.

Have a look at a shower screen before and after back flushing and any oils are pretty quickly removed. Same as soaking baskets and spouted portafilters. You can literally see the difference.

NespressotoEspresso

MediumRoastSteam Is possible to add the potassium or sodium bicarbonate to the distilled water without the concentrate?

For example, can I just buy 5 litres of distilled water and add 0.5g/500mg of potassium or sodium bicarbonate to the 5 litres, then agitate it and after that a resting period of 5-10 minutes, add that mixture to the Go and use it?

Ok. Will wipe clean the steam wand and purge immediately after each use.

Thank you for answering all my questions. It’s going be my first espresso machine and grinder, so I’m just very anxious.

MediumRoastSteam

NespressotoEspresso For example, can I just buy 5 litres of distilled water and add 0.5g/500mg of potassium or sodium bicarbonate to the 5 litres, then agitate it and after that a resting period of 5-10 minutes, add that mixture to the Go and use it?

You can. But I’d make sure that distilled/filtered/RO water you are buying is safe to drink first.

It also depends on your consumption. 5L for me would last 3 weeks, maybe longer. Whatever you do, make sure you keep the water in a suitable container, in a cool place and well sealed.

MediumRoastSteam

NespressotoEspresso - echoing a bit of what Jake is saying, I’ll put a list here of what you’ll need with your machine.

Essentials:

PulyCaf or Cafiza for backflushing
a milk jug if you drink milk based drinks
good water, as above
a good set of scales, capable to measure to 0.1g accuracy, compact so you can fit on the drip tray of your machine and slim so there’s enough clearance. Don’t go wild - if you have spent £20, you probably spent too much;
an espresso cup, a flat white/latte art cup to your taste;
a good tamper, as per Jake’s post above;

What you don’t need, ever:

nonsense to clean milk residue (her a good standard of hygiene in the first place);
citric acid for descaling your machine;

what you may consider in the near future:

WDT tool and funnel;
a bottomless portafilter;

Later on:

silicone group gasket;
better baskets;
more paraphernalia;
fancy cups;
shot mirror;
puck screen;
filter papers;

Cuprajake

I make a concentrate, as it’s easier to dose. And you can store in a cold place,

1g per 100ml of rodi/distilled water

10ml of concentration to 1l of rodi/distilled water

This is for potassium , when you use sodium you have to add more from memory.

Enjoy your journey

I would advice a good tamper one that self levels, and a cheap wdt tool you don’t need spinners or other gadgets, the normcore dosing funnels work well and are cheap, the tamper is ok but a bit wobbly. If you can find a used decent tamper they self level and are about £40 used.

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake This is for potassium , when you use sodium you have to add more from memory

I keep the same for both :) - works for me. 👍 - but… if I remember correctly, to get the same alkalinity, you’ll need to add slightly more of potassium bicarbonate… if I remember 20% more. So, from memory, I think it’s the opposite of what Jake’s said 😊