I just ordered a Varia VS3 Gen 2, with Supernova burr. I am thinking about ordering an additional burr and am trying to decide which, if any. The Varia will be an extended stay and/or automotive travel grinder for me, which will supplement my IZpresso JMax (my short stay/air travel grinder) and my Niche Zero, which is my daily driver. The Varia will only see occasional use at home, unless I prefer the taste from its burrs, relative to my Niche Zero. Fyi, I tend to drink medium to medium dark decaf. Ie Full City to Full City+. But if these burrs improve the taste of medium roasts (ie City to City+), that would be a plus. I am looking into one of the following burrs: \- Supernova (stock burrs) \- Hypernova \- Hypernova Ultra Does anyone have experience with these burrs? Especially with the above roasts? If so, please describe the tastes that you are experiencing: body, strength, flavour, seperation. What types of beans does each burr favour? So, if you have experiences with these burrs, feel free to share them. PS Tom Poland had some limited initial comments on the differences between the burrs. I’d like to learn more from Tom and others on these burrs. PPS I read a fair bit about reliability issues in the earlier versions. Is anyone having issues with the Gen 2? I hope not, as my Varia is on the way.

I separately ordered the Hypernova, as the grinder comes with the Supernova burr. Best of both worlds. Done!

Hi there, I won a VS3 Gen2 from Instagram a while back. I ran the stock burrs for a short while but I then upgraded to the luminescent blue Hypernova burr set. I did on the advice of this [youtube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdRW_Lmfh9U&t=618s) (I won the grinder from him) and I agree that that burr set had a nice mix of body and clarity for espresso and I think would be the right use case for you, I think the ultra is more geared towards filter or light roast espresso where clarity is more important. I would say that my machine is the limiting factor though, I only have a bambino plus and looking to upgrade.

> @"thetravdog"#p65752 I would say that my machine is the limiting factor though, I only have a bambino plus and looking to upgrade. Thanks for the burr advice. Appreciated. You’ve taken the right approach to focus on the grinder first. My first grinder was a Baratza Sette 270. It was ok, but the work flow was not great and its plastic parts broke easily until the motor died. Then bought a Eureka Mignon and sold it within a month; solidly built but poorly designed, and I didn’t like the taste from the burr set. I then bought a Niche Zero, which is my daily driver. I’d save up for a Niche Zero (there a numerous used ones available) or a Niche Duo, as a next step. And look into mods for your Bambino (dimmer mod, grouphead mod to brass, screen mod to IMS, pressure gauge mod, bottomless PTF, IMS basket) if you are handy or know someone who is. I had fully tricked out my Breville DuoPro and was (through those mods) was able to get pretty good espresso shots. I “temp surfed” to control temperature and used the dimmer to control flow. Next step up on the espresso machine for me was a Lelit Elizabeth, but should have bought a Lelit Bianca. I now own a Decent.

@"JHCCoffee"#p65808 I really don’t see a niche as much of an upgrade on the Varia personally. I’d probably want to move to something flat burr and with more of a flat burr profile, probably DF64 or another 64mm option, I’ll see how the Varia goes with whatever I choose next. I think I would go for an Elizabeth or similar next, I want that temp stability and steaming power. I agree with your point on the Bianca but the heat up is probably too slow and I’m not interested in flow profiling yet, but definitely want some pre infusion ability. I also don’t love overly fruity/floral coffee, love more of those boozy naturals which usually don’t require too much tinkering but I still think I can get more taste out of with a more capable machine.

> @"thetravdog"#p65812 I really don’t see a niche as much of an upgrade on the Varia personally. I’d probably want to move to something flat burr and with more of a flat burr profile, probably DF64 or another 64mm option Understood. Its all about taste. Which means its about the burrs and how they are aligned within the grinder. Its best to buy a grinder with the burrs and alignment that are suited to the type of beans that you like and the taste notes that you prefer. So..its all about the taste that ***you*** prefer, not what hyperbolic YouTube Influencers say is better or worse about a given grinder. Except maybe a couple, like Dave, who is not a stereotypical “Influencer”, but understands grinder and espresso machine engineering through and through. And Tom Poland, who understands burrs as well as anyone I know. I trust both these guys implicitly. Enjoy your Varia and please do share your taste experiences, as I hope to learn from **you** about what works and doesn’t work with that grinder. For me, as I have my Niche Z as my daily driver and the Varia as my auto travel/extended stay grinder and my 1Zpresso JMax as my airtravel grinder, and my Decent for never ending play, I’m good for a while. Until the itch for a flat overcomes my financial prudence. Time to sell some stuff I don’t need!

Agreed, it’s becoming increasingly hard to trust these types of creators. As much as they claim to be impartial I’m still very suspicious. I will say I don’t love my Varia. I think I like the cups I’m getting but as I said before, I want to upgrade my machine before I pass final judgement - I just don’t love using it daily. The grind adjustment collar still loves to move mid grind and as much as Varia tell me greasing the threads fixes it, I don’t think it’s true, I have greased them with every clean and I just think it’s an inherent issue. I just end up holding the collar whilst I grind. Given how slowly it grinds it’s a pain.

> @"JHCCoffee"#p65874 And Tom Poland, who understands burrs as well as anyone I know Out of curiosity, why is that?

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p65882 Out of curiosity, why is that? I’m sure that there is alot of knowledge about burrs and alignment here on this forum. And granted I know few people involved in burr design. But he sure has taken an interest in testing multiple grinders and burrs, through his grinder lab. He’s been quite helpful.

> @"thetravdog"#p65876 will say I don’t love my Varia. I think I like the cups I’m getting but as I said before, I want to upgrade my machine before I pass final judgement - I just don’t love using it daily Good to know. Fortunately I didn’t buy it as my daily driver, but rather as a grinder for use on automotive or extended stay trips. It’s relatively light, small and portable, so I guess I will just put up with the need to hold the dial to avoid grind settings drift. I will message Tom Poland and the manufacturer about this (Tom appears to have a connection to the manufacturer). Maybe there is a better fix, or atleast they can fix it for Gen 3.

> @"JHCCoffee"#p65885 But he sure has taken an interest in testing multiple grinders and burrs, through his grinder lab. He’s been quite helpful. but does taking an interest makes anyone knowledgeable? You could argue some influencers have many grinders (call it a grinder lab or not), tried a few of them, and have an interest… that doesn't make them necessarily knowledgeable. No disrespect to anyone here, but experience cannot be fast tracked, in my opinion.

Taste Differences Between Varia VS3 Gen 2 Burr Options ?

Cuprajake

Giphy - tinkerbell GIF

StellarGreg

MWJB
The data is direct from Varia’s own charts. Their chart is scientifically incorrect, since the data has no “Zero”! It CANNOT have a Zero! You can’t grind coffee with the Burrs touching!!
Also the data doesn’t give information inbetween the points.
Their chart actually shows one of the curves going BELOW zero!! The data itself doesn’t…
As well as “correcting” Varias presentation of the data, I’ve used Excel to present the relative % of the part of the Distribution that is required for good Espresso - BELOW 400 nano meter.

This analysis shows that Coffee Reviewers opinions about the Burrs are often “Counter-Factual”.
The “Black Titanium” Burrs MUST be considered and tested as potentially “the Best for Traditional Espresso”, closely followed by the Gold Titanium. The one’s often favoured by the pundits the “Hypernova” and the “Hpernova Ultra”, just may be good for Light Roasted Espresso’s?? I really wouldn’t know, since I would never drink such a brew…
Of course the two “Hyper” Burrs are more expensive - so the dealers want us to buy them…

Just because a Burr has a “Superior Looking” name, don’t make it better!
Just because a pundit say’s “It’s better for Espresso” don’t make it so! (Especially if that pundit drinks light roasts…)
I bought the “Black Titanium” based on Varia’s data. My experience says that I like it for traditional Espresso with dark roast beans!

P.S. Sorry the charts didn’t come in the correct position in my post - I’m new to this forum, and couldn’t work out how to re-position them.
- - -
About the Burr Diagram, showing my suggested rectification for the Dial Moving issue.
That Washer must be to precise tolerances, the same dimensions as the Bearing. It must be either 1mm or 2mm, or 3mm, not inbetween~, to ensure that the zero marker will be in the right place,
It needs to be made from high quality engineering grade stainless steel, so as not to bend under the constant buffeting within the grinding chanber!
I think that regular 304 steel would bend far too easilly… Especially if just 1mm was tried. 2mm of 304 just MIGHT be strong enough?

The chart for Filter Brews and Drips is in another chart.
For the various Brew methods, the Gold Titanium SHOULD BE looked at as potentially “the Best”…

Regards Greg (Stellar, not because I think I’m great, but because another of my interests is in the Stars - both Astronomy and Sidereal Astrology.)~

StellarGreg

A final “plug” for the Black Titanium Burrs, would be about this material Titanium Carbide, (as opposed to the Titanium Nitride, which is in the Gold Titanium).

Titanium Carbide is used the Space Industry for resistance to the temperatures and stresses of re-entry.

If that doesn’t say it’s a “Super” - “Hyper” material then I don’t know what will…

Regards Greg

P.S. Did Varia put the “Hyper” word on the wrong Burrs???????

Cuprajake

i apologies if my replies recently come across as a bit arsey,

being away from the social media side of it has been a great breath of fresh air, and not much i see really interests me, i dont need people to tell me what i should be tasting, anymore nor do i need to line their pockets,

im just so over the ever evolving bs of buy the next best thing and people trying to justify you spending huge amounts of money on the latest and greatest, i mean instead of a £1000 grinder change, that buys you some pretty exclusive beans

MWJB

StellarGreg Don’t dismiss the “Black Titanium” version!
Looking at the distribution data that Varia have provided, it gives the MOST fines, and therefore should give the most “traditional” espresso with darker roasts, which are my preference!

I have transferred the data from your chart you posted and made a cumulative chart (hit the link & scroll down), these are easier to read as non-cumulative charts are hard to decipher.

The 0.59% at 1200 for the Iridescent looks a bit anomalous, but then it’s only a tiny fraction of the grinds. Beyond that, however the data was determined, the standard deviations of the grinds depicted look pretty similar, Black is finest, Steel & Plasma seem to be set a bit coarser, irrespective of the number shown on the grinder setting ring.

VS3 grind data

If you see any obvious errors, let me know.

StellarGreg

Thanks for your reply, however I don’t find the cumulative view as intuitive as the straight data graph.

For the Espresso information, it might be better to Cumulate the date the other way so that the 100% corresponds to the fines?
For Espresso you want fines and no boulders.
For Filter, etc. You don’t want the fines.
So doing the cumulation the opposite way for each would make sense.

Beware you have added a ZERO point. This data CANNOT have a zero point! You cannot grind to zero microns!
Perhaps Google Docs did that for you automatically?
You’ve also allowed Google Docs to interpret data between the data points. The data is actually quite “Coarse”. More points would be ideal. But I havn’t seen many manufacturers info as good as this!
I find the “pointy” style of graph shouts - “This is Coarse Data”, which is correct.

This may be limited by the measuring equipment, which is pretty expensive as it is!

The data is Varia’s. I did check that all the percentages added up to 100%.

The Colours added to the “data percentages” were auto added by Excel, but those that interpret, are based on standard ideas:-
that for Espresso less than 400 microns is best.
for most Filter Methods between 400 microns and 800 microns is best. (but I don’t do filter - - -)

A question - from a newbie here. How do you add that list of your equipment to the bottom of your posts? Can it be done automatically, in the profile?

MWJB

StellarGreg For Espresso you want fines and no boulders.
For Filter, etc. You don’t want the fines.

All grinds have fines & boulders in proportion relative to the median/average grind size.

Zero microns is ‘no grinds’ (e.g. the % of grinds below 0.1um will be essentially zero, similarly no grinds can pass through the floor of a sifting pan, so the floor of the pan is the cut off/zero for the ground weight/smallest particle size), all grind distributions typically show a zero, or at least decimal points of a um at the smallest end.

If the Sympatec QICPIC was used to determine the plots, as Varia state, then it would have given data for many data points to 3 orders of magnitude (both cumulatively and non-cumulatively). Varia have decided show the data in this unconventional binning, every 200um after 200um upwards - I don’t know why.

milolilo9

Hello friends,

I just bought a VS3 directly from their website and got them yesterday. Made two lattes (last night and this morning) and I’d say the taste was different in a good way. It was a pleasant change from what I’m used to. I had been using Eureka Manuale with a 50mm flat burr. what stood out to me was that the bitterness was less. So much less and the cup became more enjoyable. This was with the stock burr. I also ordered a Hypernova (blue colored burr) since it’s recommended for espresso. Since I drink milk based drink; mostly lattes. I plan to switch to the Hypernova after the first cleaning, maybe in 1-2 weeks, or more, see how I feel.

I always wanted to have 2 types of grinder; flat & conical. Just so I can experience good cup of coffee. That’s all, nothing too technical. Despite reading about some complaints and QC issues with the VS3, I still decided to get one because that fit my budget at the time. I got it for USD325 (for 3 items:- VS3, Hypernova Burr & Sip Glass), and it ended up being about USD370 after all the tax & duty were paid. the VS6 and Niche were not within my budget. I also saw that the Fellow Opus is on discount at my local retailer but after reading reviews, I don’t think I’m going to like it.

I’m hoping the VS3 will be a great addition for me. Let me know if you guys want me to update on my experience after I switch it to the Hypernova burr. BTW, I drink Medium to Dark Roast. I usually take a little sip of the espresso before turning it into lattes. I also new here and I hope I can learn a thing or two from this forum. Cheers!

JHCCoffee

Thanks for all the feedback and very useful information. I bought the Varia VS3 and all the available burrs. As my travel grinder. However just haven’t had time to test it much. Now that I am very settled in with my Decent (using my Niche Zero as my daily driver grinder), I will have some time for experimentation with the Vario.

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