Java_avaJ Don’t worry about the number, it is perfectly normal for it to be higher than “normal”, especially at first.

At the beginning there are more fines, so you have to grind coarser to compensate. As the burrs bed in, the level of fines decreases and so you make the general grind finer to get the same resistance. I suspect the higher level of fines at first is why the impact of a small change is so dramatic.

When I first got my niche I was in the low twenties. Over time this reduced to the low teens. Now that I can play around with pre-infusion and use a vst basket I tend to be in the 6-10 range. It does depend on bean, dose and basket though.

The numbers are really useful for allowing you to quickly and easily change bean or brew method. I would completely ignore them for comparing against other peoples setups.

    I’m finding myself geinding pretty fine on the Solo with the VST basket. I’m dialled in on 12, 7 and 5 on the beans I’m using at the moment (5 being Extract Sugarcane Decaf). The other 2 are from Coffee by the Casuals Kenyan Mikari AA and Bombe Dry Fernentation. I’ve forgotten which one was which but the one in my Airscape is setting 12, 😆

    I’ve just unboxed my Niche and so glad I did as my Sage BE grinder I’m hoping is the reason for my poor quality shots. I only ever get weak coffee and the wife has now also started complaining, something she rarely did when using the full BE machine. Bring on good coffee! I can then also justify all the expenses on the Minima, Niche and Osmio once that arrives haha.

      MediumRoastSteam The reason I was using 17g was simply because I was finding it very difficult to get more than that in the double basket that came with the Minima, at 18g a lot spilled out, because normally, as you suggest, I’d be trying lots of different weights.

      I finally, with a lot of care, and still some spillage, managed to get closer to 18g into the basket, but had to make the grind yet courser, to 26.5 to get a better time for the shot. That gave me my 36g out at close to 40 seconds.

      This morning, without changing grind settings I bought some French Roast, still quite a dark oily bean but less so that the Santos Double Roast. Still difficult to get 18g in the basket without spillage but this time I got my 36g out at around 35 seconds and it was very tasty. The puck was drier too - so things are heading in the right direction; just slightly strange that the Niche at 26.5 is a little outside the espresso range according to their dial, but @hornbyben mentioned that at first it’s normal for the grind setting to be higher until things have bedded in.

      • Rob1 replied to this.

          HVL87 First drinks made using grind setting 20 as thought would just leave it there to start with. Still very weak but think that’s mainly because there was a clear difference between how much was in each cup, split an 18g double into 2 cups but no idea why it favoured one cup. I took the lower volume shot. My process was to grind, give the grind cup a shake when on the PF, used my dual head distributor/tamp tool to distribute/level, then Motta to tamp. I don’t WDT. My observations and maybe you guys can share tips on where to improve:

          • There looked to be a lot of headroom when tamped (quite low beneath the basket ridge) and the resulting puck was quite wet - does this indicate I need a higher dose?
          • The pressure shot up to 10 bar - Did I go too fine and need to start higher while it beds in?

          So what am I doing wrong?

          Thanks

              Alexvs

              Did you get a bottomless portafilter? If so I’d recommend using that for exactly the same dose and prep and observe the coffee coming through as it pours. It will be an easier way to determine if you’ve ground too fine or need to increase the dose as you’ll be able to gauge this from the flow better

                  dutchy101 I do have one but rarely use it as the wife and I aren’t quite up to doubles each haha. I’ll use it in the morning and just split the drink evenly after, as currently pouring into 2 espresso cups (only cups I own that fit on the scale together and under the PF) and then into larger cups for cappuccinos. It could be that I’m never going to get the full flavour because I’m splitting into 2. Maybe I need to grow some and just drink doubles haha.

                  As an aside, I’ve never liked using the single basket as never worked for me with a normal tamp and prep, which I read is common due to their design. Is there such a thing as a flat bottom 9/10g single basket?

                    Alexvs mainly because there was a clear difference between how much was in each cup

                    Maybe the machine isn’t level or your tamp is uneven?

                    Alexvs does this indicate I need a higher dose?

                    I haven’t found the need to dose above 18g but there is no harm in trying.

                    Alexvs The pressure shot up to 10 bar - Did I go too fine and need to start higher while it beds in?

                    What pressure does the gauge show when backflushing? Are you brewing to a specific ratio (by weight) and timing your shots?

                    When I backflush the gauge shows around 9.5bar and when brewing espresso it probably starts around 9.25 or lower, depending on the bean and grind.

                            HVL87 Maybe the machine isn’t level or your tamp is uneven?

                            Hmm, did not think to check the machine being level but I’m quite particular for checking the tamp is level after using the distributor.

                            HVL87 What pressure does the gauge show when backflushing

                            It also shows 10 bar. I did lower it from being over 11 when I got it but as I have a profiling paddle I thought I’d leave it at 10 so I can then play more with profiling when I’ve mastered the basics.

                            HVL87 Are you brewing to a specific ratio (by weight) and timing your shots?

                            Yeah I started at 1:2 and been increasing slowly to find the perfect balance of taste. Today was 18g in and just over 42g out in high 30s I believe with first drips at about 10s. I’m struggling to multi-task with the weight and timer haha. My focus has been weight though.

                            Thanks for your help and will update on findings from the morning drink as 2 a day is my caffeine limit currently lol.

                                    Alexvs Hmm, did not think to check the machine being level but I’m quite particular for checking the tamp is level after using the distributor.

                                    Only a suggestion based on what I have read before around uneven flow from a double spouted PF.

                                    Alexvs I’d leave it at 10 so I can then play more with profiling when I’ve mastered the basics.

                                    Sounds about right then if you are reaching 10bar when pulling a shot? Usually my shots will ramp to a slighter lower pressure than when backflushing, unless the grind is very fine.

                                    Alexvs Yeah I started at 1:2 and been increasing slowly to find the perfect balance of taste. Today was 18g in and just over 42g out in high 30s I believe with first drips at about 10s. I’m struggling to multi-task with the weight and timer haha. My focus has been weight though.

                                    You don’t really need to focus on time when pulling a shot. If you’re aiming for a specific ratio e.g. 1:2, focus on stopping the shot at a final weight of 36g. Once you’ve stopped the shot the time flashes for a second or two so you can take a mental note then. Based on taste and using time a reference adjust finer/coarser or ratio (as you seem to be doing).

                                    Out of curiosity what beans are you using? 18g:42g in high 30s with first drip at 10s does imply you’re grinding quite fine. Could always loosen it a bit.

                                    Also depending on the size of your cappuccino a single shot might get a bit lost taste wise although I understand not wanting to drink a double. Did it work for you on the BE (grind and brew)?

                                            HVL87 I got the spirit level out and it was ever so slightly out but more back to front over left to right.

                                            My shots using the BE grinder would ramp up slowly to 9 but quite soon drop to 8 so I thought it might go to 10 and then drop to 9 but didn’t quite make it.

                                            I’m using some beans from a local roaster called Milk & Beans, they’re a Columbian called El Carmen. I’m thinking I’ll loosen it and try that as I think I’ve just gone too fine. Would 2 clicks courser be too much or just do it 1 at a time do you reckon?

                                            We use a bigger standard tea cup in the morning and then small coffee glass in the afternoon. Yeah on the BE I got to quite a consistent tasting drink. It was probably closer to 1:3 ratio though as I just used the standard double program and used 20g in at high 50’s out. I’ll start with changing the grind and then extend the ratio after that and see where it goes as don’t mind playing around with my 2 drinks a day.

                                                Alexvs I thought it might go to 10 and then drop to 9 but didn’t quite make it.

                                                As the puck erodes the pressure might drop around half a bar from what I’ve observed.

                                                Alexvs I’m using some beans from a local roaster called Milk & Beans, they’re a Columbian called El Carmen.

                                                If the roast is medium/dark I typically go for a mid to high 20’s shot and 1:2 ratio. Of course it depends on your taste preferences and the specific bean.

                                                Alexvs Yeah on the BE I got to quite a consistent tasting drink.

                                                I’m sure you’ll get there!

                                                      Alexvs Would 2 clicks courser be too much or just do it 1 at a time do you reckon?

                                                      See how you get on with one mark coarser.

                                                          HVL87 I decided to go for a double each today to see if there were any issues with my prep using the bottomless PF. I first tried 2 marks courser to start as had 2 drinks to experiment with and seems I hit the jackpot as went up to just over 9 bar and settled just under. No channeling could be seen and had a lovely caramel colour to the pour after PI. Still took about 10s to start coming through and finished just over 30s with 18g in, 44g out. The second shot doing exactly the same messed up as when removing the dosing cup some grounds dropped out so was probably 17g in and ran similar ratio in 25s.

                                                          Going to try splitting the afternoon drink as I now know my prep isn’t an issue (obviously this could change but good reference). Will see how that goes but glad I’ve had at least 1 good cappuccino today 😁

                                                            After about a month of daily usage, I’m noticing that the knob to turn the steam wand on and off is starting to require a tighter close over the last two days than previously. Probably just the seals bedding in and I have been making a conscious effort not to overtighten them after reading not to in the manual and in other places.

                                                            It’s not at a point that I think I need to worry, but was wondering if this is normal?

                                                              dutchy101 It’s not at a point that I think I need to worry, but was wondering if this is normal?

                                                              Only if you have overtightened it…these “compression close” knobs as I call them are very, very good if you use them right, most people don’t and instead of ending up lasting 10-15 years they last 3 years. Much longer than the “no compression” type.

                                                              I have posted this before for the Elizabeth, but I can’t find it, so I will post in again, as this knowledge has been forgotten over the years. In the olden days people always stood a milk jug under the steam wand. This was not because they would leak, although sometimes they did…but for another reason.

                                                              When you close the wand, do it very, very lightly…1 finger will do, until it “just” stops. Shortly after, the water/steam will start to drip out again. This is because things have contracted slightly as it cools, and the valve becomes slightly open. You are then meant to close the valve a little more, very, very lightly, until it just stops….it won’t start leaking again. Do it this way and that Teflon pad seal will last 10-15 years.

                                                              Instead, people think ah I didn’t close it enough and close it harder the first time, it might still leak and the cycle repeats, the seat deforms and you need a new valve…or the cup holding the seal splits.

                                                              Contact me

                                                                I have only closed it as tight as to stop the hissing but this has definitely required a tighter close than before since yesterday

                                                                Java_avaJ

                                                                Instead of ramming 18g into a stock basket not designed for 18g why not grind finer and use 14 or 16g or whatever the basket takes?

                                                                Your extraction will be more efficient and probably better.

                                                                    Rob1 the stock double basket is designed for 18g however I actually find it a little light with my beans and there’s a lot of headroom so end up with quite wet and messy pucks. Not sure if it is the headroom that’s causing that but just a guess.