Ok, looking for some experienced advice here folks! I thought I had a good handle on things coffee related, normally just taking a couple of shots to dial in a new bean/roast level and pretty quickly able to fix it if it goes wrong. Until…. I bought some (more expensive than the usual stuff) Kenyan ‘Ruchu’ beans. I couldn’t dial in no matter what, the shot gushed and sprayed like mad no crema and tasted like instant coffee. If I tightened the grind it took ages to start dripping and would then gush/channel mad for most of the shot. I was convinced the beans were stale but they were roasted only 2 weeks from my trusted seller. Anyway, did some reading and apparently Kenyan beans can be difficult to dial in for espresso? I took extra care with puck prep and am getting better results now (sometimes real nice, it’s pretty ‘floral’’ I think would describe it) Any suggestions or experience with this kind of thing? They appear medium to darker roast

Hi @"Fred98TJ"#p6814 I don’t know the altitude but sellers website says it’s close to the town of Kandara on the Ruchu river. Google tells me that Kandara is 1588 metres above sea level. This roaster normally produces medium roast and pride themselves in [URL=https://i.imgur.com/i8OmrZM.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/i8OmrZM.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/xVRJVhK.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/xVRJVhK.jpg[/IMG][/URL] carrying out ‘slow roast’ they do not list the roast level of this bean however. Below are a couple of pics of the beans hopefully they are good enough to give you an indication?

> @"JahLaza"#p6816 good enough to give you an indication? Looks like a medium/light roast to me. > @"Fred98TJ"#p6814 I use a temp of 95 Which machine? And which grinder?

Kenyan beans?

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza - I concur with you. Exact same experience. I even though about going back to a spouted PF!

So I kept to the usual ratio, but do try a bit longer. I’m afraid your pours won’t look any better, but maybe taste will. Also try a temperature of 93C.

So yeah, visually it’s horrible to look at - but taste is very good for the ones I had from Foundry. In contrast, my own roasted coffee would look great on YouTube. Shame about the taste. 🤣

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam Also try a temperature of 93C

Yep I did that too! I had been at 94 for months on various beans and dropped it to 93 with these and to be fair it did improve the taste somewhat but couldn’t get a nice even extraction. Since focusing on distribution (with my wine bottle cork and needles wd40) it has certainly improved but I look forward to checking back in with the eureka tmoro

DavecUK

JahLaza Kenyan beans usually need quite a fine grind which makes them challenging. Is this happening with both grinder or only one?

JahLaza

@DavecUK Interesting you ask that. The specialita is in the box, has been since the niche arrived. I am doing well to claim that corner of the kitchen with just one grinder! I have the specialita all squeaky clean ready to sell. Anyway, I was just thinking today wouldn’t it be interesting to see if the beans behaved the same way out of the specialita. Ok for the heck of it I’ll carry out a comparison tmoro when I have some me time in the kitchen (and then clean it out again!!)

DavecUK

JahLaza It would, and I had a reason for asking. Which we can cover when you have done your test…when you do, use both grinders…. as the beans will have aged more by then, which could change the results.

JahLaza

Yep will do, side by side and will run a few doses through the eureka to coat burrs etc. I’ll report back thanks

Fred98TJ

You didn’t mention roast level nor altitude grown of those beans.
FWIW, I routinely use various Kenya beans (all are light roast) and have no problem with them at all. I use a naked pf and no obvious channeling. I’m using a Lelit Victoria.
Gushing and spraying all over is, of course, channelimg. That’s a grinder and/or puck prep and/or machine pressure problem.
For light roast beans, especially African, I use a temp of 95. For me I get a nice fruity, clear espresso.

Edit: you did say medium to dark roast, which would be usual (dark roast) for a Kenya coffee, but I assume possible. What roast level is the roaster calling it ?

Cheers :)

JahLaza

Hi Fred98TJ I don’t know the altitude but sellers website says it’s close to the town of Kandara on the Ruchu river. Google tells me that Kandara is 1588 metres above sea level. This roaster normally produces medium roast and pride themselves in

carrying out ‘slow roast’ they do not list the roast level of this bean however. Below are a couple of pics of the beans hopefully they are good enough to give you an indication?

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza good enough to give you an indication?

Looks like a medium/light roast to me.

Fred98TJ I use a temp of 95

Which machine? And which grinder?

Fred98TJ

JahLaza on my tablet and with the brightness that I have my screen set, I would call that light roast for sure. The beans appear blond color on my tablet.

Btw, I meant to say “that would be unusual”, not “that would be usual” on my original post.

JahLaza

Hi, Fred98TJ MediumRoastSteam yes you are both correct they are more light than dark alright! Dunno why I thought otherwise yesterday

@DavecUK I’ve pulled a few shots this morning on the specialita it’s now dialled in. Seems to deal with the bean much better than the niche - no/very little channeling, puck holds together and pressure maintained around 9.5 bar until my shot is done. Holy kajoly Batman this is fruity! the specialita seems to release a lot more of this fruitiness than I was getting with the niche, and of course I’m getting a proper extraction too I guess. I know I said ‘floral’ yesterday but I think intense fruit of some kind is more accurate

I have read some of the flat vs conical on light roast debates but not had much experience. It appears (to me at least) that the specialita is an easier machine than the niche to use on this particular bean. I did notice less ‘flavours’ when I initially got the niche after only having used the specialita. I will alternate between them over the coming days to finish out this bean to maybe investigate that more. Of course it would be different for different beans and different roast levels I suppose but will see how it goes for this one anyhow. Interestingly I had to reduce dose from 18g to about 17.5g on the niche but 18g is working fine on the specialita. I am ending out at about 40g.

I wonder if the specialita is giving me a more homogeneous particle size distribution for this bean and hence enabling better puck integrity and a proper extraction? And here’s a photo!!

Fred98TJ

Lelit Victoria and magnon silenzo

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza - Did you single dose the Specialita?

DavecUK

JahLaza Often the flat burrs on light roasts can be a little more challenging, so your result is not what I expected…but if it’s working for that bean, then your findings cannot be disputed.

That said, I use flat burrs with light roasts and have no problem, but I don’t have problems with the Niche either….generally I don’t get problems with extractions…so I am not a great test case. 🤣

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam yes

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza - interesting. So effectively what you are saying is the Niche gives you hard time with that bean? I wish I mad a Mignon just to compare. Any chance - and I know I might be asking a lot here - you could video a shot from the Niche and one from the Eureka, whenever you make a drink?

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam Niche gives you hard time

Probably a little early to fully conclude that but seems so at this early stage, will know a little more after more coffees. No problem doing the videos, is the extraction enough or do you want to see prep etc also? Will need my assistant if so,and it’ll be Wednesday if that’s the case! If just the shot I can of course manage myself

HVL87 thanks for your input, it’s great to hear others experience in this

HVL87

@JahLaza your experience resembles mine when initially moving from a Specialita to a Niche, at least as far as muted flavours are concerned - this may improve with seasoning. Hard to really comment as I didn’t have the Specialita for long or have them side by side.

My bottomless shots look quite bad with light roasts - lots of dead spots. How do yours compare between the Specialita and Niche?

I had a difficult time with Kenyan beans although managed to get a decent cup. At the time I found the contentious puck screen to help grind finer, increase extraction and reduce sourness. Visually there was no improvement in the bottomless shots but I did not relate this to extraction.

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza is the extraction enough or do you want to see prep etc also?

We trust you will be consistent and thorough with your prep :-)

Fred98TJ

In regards to the Niche (conical burr machine) vs a flat burr machine (mignon) as a broad and general statement (and it’s been well documented and discussed elsewhere) the conical burr machines (Niche in general) tend to produce a less separated, less clear, a more muddied and often with more chocolate notes (less fruity and floral). The flat burr machines tend to produce coffee with more separated flavors, more clear, with a little less texture.

Cheers :)

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam 3 videos below. Everything was carried out the same except I raked the grinds in the niche cup with bamboo stick for the niche shot - as this helps with static as you know. Other than that, nothing else weird done, no wdt or anything, just levelled the grinds in pf and tamp

First video is from eureka. Second is from niche but ran a little fast. Third video I tightened the grind 2 notches on the niche and ran another shot. This gave my 40gs in roughly the same time as the eureka.

The last shot from the niche was close to the eureka taste wise but nowhere near as ‘rich’ in flavours. I probably wouldn’t have even started this thread if my shots were as good as they are from the niche in this shot. I couldn’t dial in at all when I started on these beans. They were roasted 2 weeks when I got them. My puck prep/workflow hasn’t changed but there’s a huge improvement since the first shots from this bag of beans. One possible contribution could be that I cleaned the niche before starting this bean. I didn’t think this would cause any of this because I had ran a good few shots through before reaching out here!

See what you think of the videos anyhow

eureka specialita:

first niche shot:

Niche after dialling in:

Regards and thanks