Hi All, recently moved over from the coffee forums after I realised everyone had left, just wanted to see what peoples thoughts are on the zerowater jugs? https://zerowater.co.uk/pages/shop are they actually good enough to use in a high end coffee machine?

@"Mik3"#p12443 Welcome to the forum, yeah I think people like the Zerowater jugs, they definitely work. Some do like to remineralise so it won't scale but tastes better. @"Rob1"#171 will probably stop in to advise. I guess all the adverts on CFUK starting to hurt your eyes…plus not a lot going on there now. Mainly business spam, paid forum fluffers, and the one post BTC machine users. 😉

@"DavecUK"#p12457 think it was mainly the signatures of people like yourself saying you no longer used the forums that made me look elsewhere haha landed here with incredible timing for a deal on a new machine too so it’s already working out for the best! I previously had an under sink 6 stage RO system but don’t have the space for it here so looking for an alternate solution that requires no plumbing in / drilling through worktops without spending too much good to know, cheers

> @"Mik3"#p12469 without spending too much This is very relative. What’s your budget please ? Apart from ZeroWater , the other counter top ROs would also work well - Osmio Zero, Skuma water to name a few. The latter isn’t released yet I think, while the former will set you back by £450-£500 inc accessories. As Dave said, people are happy with ZeroWater. I won’t know what the frequency of filter change would be. We have some ZW users, who will be able to advise you.

@"LMSC"#p12471 yeah I have seen the osmio zero but was a touch on the pricey side at the moment as I also need a new grinder 😂 so far as budget it’s really as cheap as I can get but that will ensure the new coffee machine is cared for from day one. Was thinking the zerowater would be a good option as I can get a 2.8l jug (big enough to fill the water tank in the machine) and 4 spare cartridges for \~£80 currently, just conscious that a £40 jug might not be as good as it claimed? My old under counter fixed unit was less than £300 but I left it in my last house, the glass kettle I had for 5 years still had a mirror finish on the element so really looking for the best I can get without breaking the bank to keep my machine as clean as I can

@"Mik3"#p12481 Neither I know what your machine is nor the ZW. Of course, we understand the budget constraint. So, spend wisely. If we are spending Ks on a machine, it remains good for a long time assuming she gets good water and TLC. We also have to be aware of the frequency of filter change, the cost of filters and a temporary or a permanent nature of the water solution. The longer the duration, the higher the cost and more so, if l hard water. The ROs may also require frequent filter change if you live in a hard water area. Some of us have Osmio Zero; she gets softened water. The filter therefore lasts 1 year at least. We view the one-time outlay as worth every penny. We drink, cook and feeds the coffee machine. Edit : I think @"dutchy101"#56 uses the Zero Jug.

I'm not sure you'll get 2.8l of purified water in that jug from a single fill. The filtration media has quite a lot of resistance, I found that if the bottom got too full, flow would stop. It was good for about a litre a time from the 2.3L version. If I bought a Zerowater again, I'd go for a larger reservoir.

@"LMSC"#p12487 yeah unfortunately the water here is classified as hard, it’s another reason I want to ensure there is a good level of filtering prior to any of it going anywhere, conscious £60 every 4-6 months would be adding up quickly on top of the £450 “If you have a hardness level over 250 Calcium Carbonate then you may need to change the carbon block and membrane more frequently than every 6 months.” the water company tells me it’s 281 mg/l of calcium carbonate

@"MWJB"#p12491 good to know, thanks for the insight, I was thinking it meant 2.8l filtered but most likely it’s the jugs capacity then

I've been using the 2.8l zero jug for about 4 months & remineralising for coffee. I reckon the usable capacity is around 2.6-2.7l from filling my 5l water bottle. Luckily I live in a soft water area < 50mg hardness & the original filter is still going strong running about 10 litres a week through it. The only minor niggle is the cover over the spout. It doesn't open enough on its own when pouring so the water stream can be broad & if you manually open it won't lock into place fully & flips down when pouring. So I end up having to hold the dam thing open. I suppose I could remove it but I do like that it prevents anything dropping in the jug.

@"Mik3"#p12493 Do you have a whole house softener installed?

Zero water jugs

MediumRoastSteam

caffeinated-carp I did a 2 year analysis of cost on Osmio Zero, Skuma, bottled and zero water.

How many litres of water do you normally use (as in, which goes through your coffee machines, or for making coffees) in a month?

caffeinated-carp

MediumRoastSteam Well I make probably 5 double shots a day, so lets say 36ml per double, then plus flushing - i suppose lets give a very generous figure of doubling it so 36ml espresso + 36ml flush, so 360ml a day if I don’t do any further flushing e.g. the service boiler, maybe lets keep a 300ml flush in every day for that, so 660ml a day, 21 litres a month.

MediumRoastSteam

caffeinated-carp 21 litres a month.

Reason I ask:

caffeinated-carp Bottled water (Lockhills) - £291

5 Litres of Lockhills will cost you £1.40. So with £291 you can buy 1,035 litre of Lockhills, which would last you over 4 years. Are you sure your figures are correct? 😉👍

The Zero Water seems ok if you consider buying a jug and a set of 8 filters from ZeroWater right now, and you’ll be paying over the odds for it. The filters are often one sale, and you can definitely get a set of 4 for as little as £35 if you shop around.

dutchy101

Benefits of Osmio and Skuma is the added health benefits that come from clean drinking water they provide. I had and used a Zero jug for a year for my machine only. It did the job, but I only had it whilst I was waiting for my Skuma (I backed this on the Indegogo campaign).

If you wanted to drink the water from the Zero as well as using for a machine, the costs of filters would increase significantly.

caffeinated-carp

dutchy101 I presume a zero water jug provides water just as clean as the Osmio or Skuma? So then it’s purely around volume? Basically if you’re creating drinking water as well then the Osmio or Skuma make more sense but if not then the Zero Water jug does just the same job?

dutchy101

Yes, the Zero actually provides even cleaner water than the Osmio or Skuma - it literally strips everything out of it. You need to remineralise this to get to an appropriate alkalinity for your service boiler.

Since getting the Skuma, I haven’t checked the alkalinity of the RO non-infusion water (that I really should get around to doing at some stage), but I am taking it straight from the Skuma and using in my machine.

I found pure Zero water wasn’t nice to drink - the Skuma RO water is far nicer. I suspect that the same would be true of the Osmio too, but I’ve never tried or tasted that water.

caffeinated-carp

dutchy101 Do you use the coffee infusion in your Skuma? I’m not sure if you can actually run it without any infusions, presume so. If you do, is that maybe why it is nicer to drink?

Was the zero water nice to drink when you had remineralised it, no reason for me to know, I’m just curious!

Did coffee produced with the Skuma or Zero water taste different, is one better?

Last one, sorry!! What recipe did you use to remineralise the zero water?

Sorry for the question bomb!! :D

dutchy101

caffeinated-carp Do you use the coffee infusion in your Skuma? I’m not sure if you can actually run it without any infusions, presume so. If you do, is that maybe why it is nicer to drink?

There is a Minerals button which will dispense infusions with the water when this is lit. When the light it off by pressing the button, the machine dispenses pure RO water without the infusion. I haven’t tried the coffee infusion - I am using the Sunshine boost (electrolytes and Vitamin D) at the moment. I tend to drink a mixture of with and without the infusions and both taste great. Much nicer than Zerowater did.

Was the zero water nice to drink when you had remineralised it, no reason for me to know, I’m just curious!

Not really - I was remineralising with sodium bicarbonate and it tasted a bit salty. I only ever used the Zerowater for my machine as I wasn’t a fan of how it tasted, plus I would have gone through filters like nobody’s business. I have terrible London water (432 TDS from a test from my tap water just now). One Zero filter would make me up about 35 litres of zero water before I needed to change it. I am using the first filter I got with my Skuma when I got it back in early February. I have a wife and 2 children and we all drink the water from the Skuma every day. We also use it to cook rice and pasta. I would estimate we use at least 6-8 litres a day.

Did coffee produced with the Skuma or Zero water taste different, is one better?

Not sure I could say whether one tastes better than the other when it comes to the coffee they make if I’m being completely honest. Both tasted great with the coffee. Having said that my wife did not like the taste of the Zerowater when I was using it to brew her tea via the water in my Minima service boiler. She far prefers the Skuma RO water in her tea.

Last one, sorry!! What recipe did you use to remineralise the zero water?

I would make up 5 litre batches at a time using an old Tesco Ashbeck bottle. I’d remineralise 5 litres of Zerowater with 320mg of sodium bicarbonate which brought the alkalinity up to the desired level

I’ve replied in line above.

If you want something for just your machine, then the Zerowater is a great solution. It worked well for me for a year whilst I waited for my Skuma. I am not missing making up batches of water every week or so - far, far easier to take out the tank and stick it under the Skuma dispenser to fill up.

caffeinated-carp

MediumRoastSteam Sorry I’d changed the parameters since making that figure for the Lockhills :)

so with 660ml a day, then it’s 21 litres a month. I rounded up so I’d buy 5 bottles of Lockhills so 25 litres, so I’d have 4 left over which I have basically just ignored but oh well!

So £7 a month, so over 2 years £168. With all the same variables Zero water costs £142 (ignoring the epsom salts and all that)

MediumRoastSteam

caffeinated-carp With all the same variables Zero water costs £142

caffeinated-carp 4 Zero water filters last a year

What were the parameters? I mean, it can cost whatever you want, but a simple Google search tells me:

Zero water jug: £30 (includes 1 filter)
4 filters: £36, x2: £72
Total: £102

My point is that it’s not as expensive as you might think. It can be, but it does not need to be if you shop around.

Also, don’t forget that the Zero Water filters life span depends on your water quality and hardness (same on the Osmio and presumably Skuma). For instance, in my case, the Zero water filter will be good for approx. 40 litres. So if I had your water usage of 21L a month, I’d be looking at 7 or 8 filter per year.

caffeinated-carp

dutchy101 Thanks for this :) oh, which jug did you get? I’m looking at the 2.8 litre one although I don’t really need that much, I’ve got an LMLU which has a 2 litre reservoir. Probably most sizes would work but I did read that some jugs are better than others due to the spout flaps etc.

Also, what’s with all fishy reviews I see? So many people seem to say it starts to smell of fish after probably only 2 weeks. Possibly just in mega hard water areas?

MediumRoastSteam

I myself am thinking whether it’s time to ditch the distiler and go for a Zero Water jug. But my usage is a lot less than mepth137. I only use 7L or so per month.

caffeinated-carp

MediumRoastSteam I did ask Zero Water whether the filters have a lifespan and they said no, as long as you don’t leave them standing without some flow through the filter for more than 7 days it’s fine, so I suppose they support low-volumes very economically.

The Skuma does look awesome. If my family used it I would consider it, but I think as it is my wife probably wouldn’t want it out on the worktop, so it would get consigned to the garage, and it would seem to be a big shame to consign a £350 gadget to a dusty garage!

simonc

caffeinated-carp with a 2 litre tank you can measure 0.2g (or 0.16g bicarb and 0.39g Epsom salts when doing the barista hustle recipe) direct into your tank, with no need to mess about with concentrates if you buy some £20 jewelry scales from Amazon that weigh 0.001g.

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1579-another-water-discussion/64

dutchy101

I had the 2.8l jug. I’d keep it full in my fridge to prolong the life of the filter. The filter clears all chlorine etc. out of the water, so if you leave it too long without using it, it could well start to smell fishy - bacteria will grow in it etc.

simonc

I have the square zero with the valve at the bottom. Handy to allow refilling and filtering new water whilst you pull water out the bottom into a jug. I use maybe 2l a week and never noticed any fishy smells and replace when tds showed non zero Maybe Evey 3 months and I’m in very hard London water.

I used to use TWW sachets for ease to remin as the Minima takes the 2l the sachets are designed for but now bought 0.001 g scales from Amazon and a tub of Epsom salts and just weigh out what I need each time. Very simple

caffeinated-carp

Out of interest do you guys keep yours in the fridge at all times? I would prefer not to have to do that really, but it’s probably what I should be doing…

MWJB

No.

simonc

Meant to say that, no, never in the fridge

MediumRoastSteam

simonc with a 2 litre tank you can measure 0.2g (or 0.16g bicarb and 0.39g Epsom salts when doing the barista hustle recipe) direct into your tank, with no need to mess about with concentrates

Will the tank be emptied and subsequently full of “pure” water? In which case yes.

simonc

MediumRoastSteam by tank I meant reservoir, not boiler.

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