Espresso machine questions...oOo enticing click me!

Ernie1 only thing is the ECM Sync is £2379 without flow profiling! Quite a difference vs £1900 on the Bianca with flow profiling included.

Frothbewithyou Your point on seeing these machines in the flesh would be amazing! Is their a UK convention or even a showroom where you can look at a large range of brands and machines?!?

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk

HVL87 My only question on the Vesuvius is how well it tracks a pressure profile e.g. I have seen videos where it overshoots the pressure and takes time to reach the target. Maybe a Vesuvius owner or @DavecUK can comment.

It depends on how the PID controlling the pump is set up and the pump acceleration chosen. The manuals is a bit old now and there was a change about 4 years ago where the number of pulses to the induction part of the gear pump was changed by the induction drive manufacturer, so the default of 400, is bit high now and i think values more like 170/200 should be used. It can track the profile quite tightly. The pump acc is what dictates the curve it follows rather than sudden changes in a step wise fashion as it tracks the profile.

If at all possible Frosty, might be worth you going round to an enthusiast or two for a coffee and seeing how easy their set up is. To use an analogy you’ve driven an HGV for a living but have never had an SUV and are trying to weight them up from the internet.

I still remember the folk who kindly accommodated a visit when I first started back around 2004 but was surprised how much mess and coffee grinds there were, dirty cloths and sponges, what seemed an awful lot of faff, but I realised it didn’t have to be like that.

My first machine (Gaggia Cubika) was the end game, until I realised as a single boiler that after extracting a shot I had to wait for the boiler to heat up for steaming. And then wait for it to cool down before I could extract again.

My next machine was the end game (Pavoni) and the zen of a lever, until I got fed up with the Porter filter wiggle to release the pressure, the general mess of using one particularly if you make two (I had two double baskets) back to back and that it’s basically a kettle meaning it’s too cold, then it’s right, then carries on heating up. And steaming needed exceptional skill.

My next machine was the end game (Expobar Brewtus II) except they had designed the controller to sit in the hottest part of the machine. So it gave way to an Izzo Alex and then the game changed as DC was becoming influential with changes being made for pro/consumers.

Hence an Izzo Duetto (great machine), a Verona (again great) but an opportunity to buy a Vesuvius and I had been like a kid in a sweet shop quietly since seeing it at DCs place.

Similar story for me with grinders (Macap, Mazzer, Ceado and Niche) and roasters (iRoast, Hottop, Genecafe, Quest M3 then Dalian).

To some extent has been the fun of the journey and I guess settling on what I can be bothered to do without getting lazy. Personally an easy repeatable routine with cleanliness and minimum maintenance is as important to me as the quality of shot. I still make cafetière and moka pot sometimes, V60 when I want the cleanest taste (using 1zpresso J-Max) and mostly split doubles on the Vesuvius for small regular coffees with maybe 1 in 10 as a latte.

But I know I benefited from seeing machines and set ups in action or having my techniques critiqued to correct faults I was otherwise unaware of and it’s amazing how easy it is to fall into them.

All good fun and good luck with the choice!

Your buying soley in looks if you are thinking bianca ecm/profitec.

So it sounds like you’re after something that prioritises espresso only, with milk drinks as an occasional requirement. Your comments on coffee preference being less acidic suggest that profiling might not be that important. It’s more valuable with light roasts that are harder to extract. There’s no harm in profiling, but I suspect a standard 9 bar with pre-infusion will get you coffees you like.

Given you are going to be drinking mostly black I would prioritise this. To me this means good temp stability. I would therefore recommend a pid controlled single boiler (if you don’t mind the pause to steam), or a pid controlled double boiler. I would avoid heat exchanger machines, as they compromise temperature control for steaming. This is a reasonable compromise if you mainly drink milk drinks, but probably not the right balance for you. Probably the only exception here is the lelit MaraX v2, which I understand has a mode that prioritises brew temperature if you’re not steaming milk.

Looks are clearly important to you, and while every one has different taste I personally would only have a machine I like the look of.

For sound I think it’s worth trying to see a vibe pump in use. I know some people are very sensitive to noise and it’s very important to them, but I don’t find a vibe pump that noisy. It’s certainly not an issue to make a coffee in the kitchen when everyone is asleep. They’re cost effective and they work well. For me I would consider a rotary pump wouldn’t feature as a deciding factor.

Enjoy the decision making process.

I do know a machine that may be up your street.

I looked at these long and hard before the bianca, in the end patience got the best of me

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/domestic-coffee-machines/products/bezzera-matrix-de-pid

No maintenance group, quick to warm up, rotary pump. Comes with or without the side panels

Bezzera are a known brand. I asked about and they have their fans. I was sooo close to buying one, in the end i knew id want flow control which cant be added to that group.

Cuprajake The Bezzera Duo DE is basically the same machine as the Matrix DE without LEDs on the side panels. Interestingly, the MN versions of the matrix and duo are quite different, and feature E61 groups (with the traditional levers). Also, these DE models use PID to control the temperature and heaters within the Bezzera group, so they independently heat and monitor/control each of the two boilers and the group head, but other models like the Crema PID do not, they only control the boiler with PID and use a simpler fixed-temperature for the group.

I like the seemingly lower maintenance of the BZ group, and don’t want manual controls, so I find the duo appealing, but don’t own one.

Yeah it has set able volumetric buttons if i remember

I was going the see through case with the bezzera group.

Clever machine.

Frothbewithyou keep in mind that your roast preference may change/develop over time and you may feel constrained if you limit yourself to a group/machine only capable of a straight 9 bars.

If you intend to make back to back drinks for guests a single boiler machine will get old very quickly in my opinion.