Elcarajillo British gas have really irritated me in the past, my credit balance is now over £600, keeps going up every month. I was waiting for the call to say as you new fixed plan is more than bloody double what you were paying for electric, and 3 times what you are paying for gas we’re going to increase your monthly payment by loads and maintain an even larger credit balance.

So far they don’t seem to have done that, and estimated super fairly on my old plan stopping and new massively expensive plan starting. Perhaps one day they will be able to read my smart meters themselves.

back to peddling on a fixed bike to generate my own power, until someone figures out a way to get cows to fart into gasometers (before they get rid of them all). Saving the climate and bringing down gas costs. It could be like a milking machine…….setup, but to extract gas.

DavecUK The article is about the ability of US manufacturers to sell turbines at profit rather than wind power production cost. The cost of manufacturing everything has risen in the last two years though so the fact that wind turbine manufacture hasn’t been immune shouldn’t be surprising.

That article doesn’t go into detail on what the terms of the subsidies that they reference were but I wouldn’t be surprised if US makers did rely on subsidies to make their turbines competitive against global competition. Assuming of course that this is what is being implied, which I think is the case - the mention of increased competition from the Chinese and an increased focus of competitive tendering rather than subsidising US companies.

    Gagaryn I guess I take the broad view that subsidies means you don’t have a real business. I believe subsidies are appropriate to protect a nations core abilities, but need to be carefully controlled. E.g if it’s felt to be important we as a 1st world country have the ability to make steel, then we need to subsidise it.

    Although it’s the USA, I’m sure the same issues exist in the UK. Ultimately what a wind turbine costs is reflected in what we pay for electricity. All a subsidy does is hide that cost and with the way they are billed in the UK promote inequality, where the poor pay proportionally more of their income.

      DavecUK Yup, I agree, in simple terms if you can’t compete in an international market your business isn’t viable. But this is complicated by countries increasing and understandable desire to be self sufficient. On the basis of that article one answer would be simply buy the cheaper and more efficient Chinese turbines. That’s unlikely to play out well though!

      Also important to remember but subsidies aren’t limited to green energy production, I believe nuclear has received greater subsidies than green in the US.

        Gagaryn I guess really it’s about the many supporting the few with money to make themselves very rich, and it doesn’t encourage efficiency at all.

        dfk41 this is a typical internet meme. Unsubstantiated and sensationalist with no balance.

        For a start it doesn’t tell you the carbon intensity of making a battery. It gives you a 12hr fuel consumption, a mass of earth (or more accurately ore). This infers it takes 12 hours to move this. 500,000lb is 227 tonnes. According to CAT that vehicle has a bucket size of up to 36m3, and a max lift of 38 tonnes. So this is probably less than 10 buckets full (at max capacity 227 tonnes / 38 tonnes per bucket = 6 buckets). That doesn’t sound like 12 hours work.

        A lot of the worlds lithium also comes from brine evaporation, not ore.

        Are electric cars perfect, no. Do they have carbon impacts, yes. However, properly researched studies show that for the majority of the world they are less carbon intensive than combustion engines over their lifetime (including production impacts), see https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/electric-cars-better-for-climate-in-95-of-the-world.

          dfk41 I think the big issue these days is that society seems unable to be able to deal with grey. Everything has to be black or white; you’re either in one camp or the other, and we’ve got lazy with facts, so a catchy headline or opinion on Facebook tends to get more credit than a well researched, balanced and qualified article.

          Greener options don’t mean no impact, just less and usually with more consideration of what that impact might be and continued efforts to reduce it. Lithium batteries clearly have an environmental cost, and people are working hard to find alternatives. Solar panels create hard to recycle waste at end of life, but again people are aware and working hard to find solutions. Neither of these issues are reasons not to adopt the technologies though, as even with these issues they’re still less damaging than the status quo.

          Ultimately, the biggest impact most of us can have is to reduce consumption in our lives, and ensure that what we buy actually adds value and is worth the cost (financially and environmentally). I did read a study that showed a small petrol vehicle can have less total lifetime emissions than a Tesla, but this isn’t really a fair comparison, as a small EV would have had lower emissions. People see the headlines and then use that justify to themselves that there is no value to electric vehicles and they may as well get a combustion engine. They then ignore the small part and another SUV hits the road (this is a generalisation, but you get the point).

          If you want to make a difference get the smallest of everything that fits your needs the majority of the time, rather than sizing everything to the maximum you might possibly need. For example having a small car that is fine day to day, but requires you to use a trailer or roof box for the couple of times a year where you need the space (like a camping trip) is going to be greener than having a large car that drives around empty most of the time. Having a smaller house where every room is used every day is greener than having (and heating) loads of spare rooms that no one uses. On the occasion when you have more people over you can share rooms, sleep on camp beds in the living room or get a hotel. It also takes less time to clean and maintain.

          Mostly these choices aren’t even much of a sacrifice, they just go against the natural drive to keep up with the Jones’. Consuming less always costs less to buy and maintain. This means you need less income, giving you flexibility. It might let you retire earlier, or work less hours and have more time to do what gives your life meaning, or work in a sector that is important to you but doesn’t pay as well. There is plenty of evidence that shows human happiness comes from having purpose and being part of a community, not having more stuff.

          When I was younger I spent a few months in rural India, and this very strongly highlighted that the list of needs was actually quite low, and most of us have a long list of wants.

            hornbyben I think the big issue these days is that society seems unable to be able to deal with grey. Everything has to be black or white; you’re either in one camp or the other, and we’ve got lazy with facts, so a catchy headline or opinion on Facebook tends to get more credit than a well researched, balanced and qualified article.

            I agree, this is a massive problem,….easy to get swept along with the Zeitgeist.

            It’s like the Heat Pumpers, massively insulate your house, spend 14K+ adapting your house to a heat pump, and you won’t quite save money, even though they would like you to think so, because the scop is still probably lower than the differential price per kW between electric and gas…especially when you are trying to heat water.

            What they never say though, is now you insulated your home so well, you will use so much less gas…they always compare it tp how much gas you used to use prior to insulating

            hornbyben Ultimately, the biggest impact most of us can have is to reduce consumption in our lives, and ensure that what we buy actually adds value and is worth the cost (financially and environmentally).

            Agreed, as long as it’s not coffee stuff 😉

            Electric cars are a tax dodge,

            We have had 3 new hybrids in. All do less than 40miles on a charge all attached to 2.0 diesel motors, all weigh more than their fuel only counter part so go from 50mpg to 27mpg

            Then you factor in these battery’s only last around 5yrs. It’s a pointless system

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Lagom P64 - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

              God Bless Elon Musk 🙏

              God Bless Free Speech 🙏

              God Bless Dave for his great work in building this wonderful coffee forum 🙏☕

                drdre89 God Bless Dave for his great work in building this wonderful coffee forum 🙏☕

                Pffff…..I just got fed up with all the profiteering forums do out of the membership, one way or another by the people who own them or a small number involved with them..

                  Cuprajake
                  Hybrids are not so pointless in my experience. We’ve had a Honda Jazz without hybrid and with. The petrol version returned late 30’s, early 40’s, the hybrid regularly returns mid 50’s. Same drivers, same journeys, same petrol engine (1.5). Oh, and the battery is now at least seven years old.

                  DavecUK Pffff…..I just got fed up with all the profiteering forums do out of the membership, one way or another by the people who own them or a small number involved with them..

                  Don’t be so modest Dave. You deserve a pat on the back for building the foundation of a great community.

                  We had a Prius for 11 years and was not that impressed with the mpg. Loved the car though. The wife used to call it the hearse. From memory it was about 45 mpg. We now have the Toyota CHR which we have had for 4 years now and we are averaging 55mpg. It does depend how you drive but I am not consciously driving to save petrol just driving normally. At the moment on my last fill I am currently showing 58mpg, this could change either way. The CHR with the larger engine is supposed to return a better mpg according to the Toyota dealership.

                  11 days later