Review by Lance Hedrick, if any one is interested in. https://youtu.be/PBn223u7w2s

I agree with what he says, and that's what I find too. I prefer my mazzer, the niche works well for the Mrs milk drinks

@"Cuprajake"#p18736 Yeah! I saw your comment on his channel Jake! I can’t jusge as I am still a manual guy. Have been resisting to grab a Niche for > 1 year as it is another conical, though 64 mm. I am not sure it will make a huge difference to the cup compared what we have at home, except it is a massive convenience and a great workflow. I like medium to light roast and don’t mind medium dark for milk based. Brewing is very important for me. I would like an electrical flat; I still like my JX as it produces great shots, although it is a little boring to grind these days 🤣

Thanks for heads up.. A really well balanced review for sure. No big surprises perhaps, at least not for me. I had a Niche last year and sold it after a few months but was a little regretful. When a near new one came up for sale ast month, I pounced. It is such a charmer of a grinder. Small footprint, low height compared to everything else on my espresso island, easy and simple and certainly low retention. And in the cup, thickish and tasty for medium to dark espresso. Once I have the 83mm conical burr Livi seasoned I'll do a back to back comparison with the Niches 63mm conicals but with my indelicate taste buds I doubt that I'll be able to taste the difference.

That seems to be a reasonable review for his taste profile. I've only pulled maybe 25 shots with the Niche at work and 10 or so with grounds transported home from work. It is easy to dial in and make a tasty shot. In a perfect world I'd have a Niche and something with big flat burrs. I'm a sucker for berry / fruit flavor.. 98% of drinks are straight shots. Wifey drinks iced lattes.

Quite fair review. It’s funny how careful he speaks to not upset the Niche fanboyz.

He could have used any coffee in the world to pull his shot on, and he chooses a lightly roasted bean.......god, he woffles on and on! I emailed him a couple of times and he really tried to stress that he had no financial arrangement with any coffee equipment manufacturer........yea right

I do think he gave a balanced opinion, did not come out offending any one, appreciated the other coffee gurus really like them and so on. He didn’t say anything new, IMO. I thought he said it doesn’t work for him. Though he said it’s not conical vs flat, it is indeed that as he wanted clarity. As far as a light roast is concerned, I guess he used it to drive home his point as he seems to prefer light stuffs.

Not watched it all yet, but at the beginning he says the price has gone up and up - has it? I thought it had always been the same?

Price hasn't changed it will be exchange rates and import It's just a fancy way of saying he likes a different flavour profile, but and a big but thes a content creator and so far I have seen threads on 2 forums discussing his vid. Shock horror. It's spromethues all over again. There's nothing new to what he says, he's basically just describing the niche. 🤷🤷🤷

@"Cuprajake"#p18757 I take all this on board about impartiality, but if that is the case, why was there so much factually incorrect stuff? He is a poor Youtube influencer, claiming independence, heavily promoting Sage gear. In fact he went to OZ recently to review something for Sage.....wonder who paid for that trip? I wonder if his YT channel is monetised? If not, how does he make a living?

Niche Zero - One Year in Review

JahLaza

I’m a relatively new comer to this game starting a couple years ago, purchasing my first home machine just over a year ago. Thankfully I wandered across you guys (you in particular @DavecUK ) during the research phase! I couldn’t go shelling out the money involved without some level of confidence in what I was paying it for. Probably in that length of time the industry has expanded a huge amount still with the pandemic etc.etc. but I am now realising that the money makers have swooped in on this currently buoyant enterprise and attacking it from all angles with the marketing etc and it’s funny how it takes shape!! If this guy on this video here doesn’t make his bit there will be a hundred others lining up with their shpeeeel😂 So, great to have some sound knowledge and a place one can actually ask a straight question and answer (here) and meanwhile pass some time (and hopefully not too much money) looking at the various yt shows etc. out there

DavecUK

Gagaryn He may or may not believe what he says but he could have said what he had to say in a quarter of the time. I think he is just making content for views.

When he reviewed the La..gome Mini, I watched for 25 minutes expecting to see the grinder in action, grinding from beginning to end and then watch a shot made from it….He had one job to do in that review as far as I was concerned and my expectations were not met….

In that video, the only time I actually saw the Lagom grind beans (not the brief inset of it stalled), was when he picked up a bout 5 beans and tossed them in to show how quiet it was. 23m 12 seconds in. For the entire 25m he just woffled on and showed nothing of the grinder grinding.

dfk41

DavecUK There is that WOFFLE word again!

Cuprajake

There’s a bloke having issues with his p64 atm too, but no one’s jumping and shouting about that, seems if you’re face doesn’t fit it just don’t fit.

LMSC

Am sure most of the members would have watched it. He reviews Wilfa and Niche one year on!

Obviously, we know he sells Wilfa !

Always enjoy watching his videos. He is one of the 3 reasons for my rediscovery of love for coffee! The other two are Dave and the forum

dndrich

Dave’s excellent and non-commercial reviews that I happened upon led me to up my game from the Breville Barista Express, a great entry level machine by the way, to the Elizabeth and the Niche. I could not be happier with the choices. Sure, there is wonderful kit for much more money, but for my simple tastes and needs, as well as workflow interests, I now have café quality coffee at home with devices that are fun to use, don’t break the bank, and are easy to service and maintain. For many this coffee thing is a hobby, and they have developed palates for nuances in the beans that are beyond my skill or interest. But for me these choices have been wonderful. The Niche in particular is a joy to use. I use it for drip coffee and espresso every day, and can do that with a single grinder. Perhaps there are grinders that produce subtle flavors that I might enjoy, but for my lifestyle the Niche could not be better. It is interesting how the Niche has become the consumer gold standard, to which all other grinders seem to be compared.

drdre89

This thread is an interesting read 🙂

I love my Niche. I personally prefer a Chocolatey cup over a fruity cup. And in most cases the coffee I make at home with my Niche tastes better than most coffees I get around Melbourne.

Could I get a better grinder? Yes … but can’t be bothered. Am happy with the workflow the Niche provides.

tompoland

drdre89 summed it up perfectly. To me, the NZ is the best combination of efficiency and effectiveness, the latter being relative to the flavor I’m after.

Frothbewithyou

dfk41

LMSC this is so true, the majority of coffee consumers are not prosumers. They think the pinnacle of coffee is a £5 instant. To justify to them an investment like some of us have done is in their opinion full on insanity.

Don’t own a Niche but did use YT, forums etc to get a grounded basis for my own purchasing decisions. Making a leap otherwise would be pure madness and based on nothing but guess work.

I don’t think we want to make (and sorry for the pun) coffee more niche than it is. I think these YT make coffee accessible and explain the nuances to beginners etc.
Once you have a nose in the game you can be your own expert and decide your own flavour likes and dislikes.

In the end we know all car salesmen are looking to sell a car, but I’m still going to ask them to tell me what’s in x latest model when I visit a showroom.
I ain’t going to be like ‘I know your game back away I am the car expert here’ 😂😂 even if I have read up about a preferred model.

I don’t post that often anymore, because I’m quite happy in my little bubble of a set up, but I do find some of the viewpoints posted here a little extreme/plain aggressive. I get people feel strongly about things but jeez ha.

It seemed a well articulated video, stated with some caution, so that the internet mob don’t rake him over coals because his opinion doesn’t line up with there opinion. I’d argue anyone who was in a similar position would tread lightly. I don’t think everyone is trying to be contrary or have hidden backers or some autere motive. It’s a opinion video and I took as that much and moved on.

Anyways enjoyed the reading.

LMSC

Frothbewithyou forums

Forums like this are likely to be the best place to identify something that suits our requirements. The YT videos - especially the one with those who have a decent viewerships - are unlikely to be the source of getting unbiased recommendations. We can learn from them but needs to exercise care before purchasing anything based on those recommendation’s.

Frothbewithyou do find some of the viewpoints posted here a little extreme/plain aggressive. I get people feel strongly about things but jeez ha.

Unavoidable at times as there is a public forum. I will leave it at that! 😊😉

Enea_

Thanks to serious prosumer friends, I’ve tried a Niche for a couple of weeks & tried a Monolith Flat for a couple of days. I’m by no means a professional reviewer or taster, etc… I only drink espresso & loathe the overwhelming majority of other brew methods.

My take is that you do get a different tasting coffee out of a £3k+ grinder like the Monolith, those flavour notes on the coffee package really are a little easier to recognise -most of the time.

Yet I’m saving up for a Niche because, seriously, at £500 a pop I can still taste most of the flavour notes and considering the state of my inflation-affected earnings, I don’t see the point of spending 6 to 7 times the amount for maybe 1.2 to 1.5 times the quality.

IMO going for the “end-game” grinder also implies the coffee beans you’re buying have to go up in price significantly to make the whole experience worth your while but spending more than £40 for 500g of coffee isn’t something I’d want to hit my budget with over a year.

DavecUK

Enea_ You can save that money for some Mpingo discs

https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/shun-mook-mpingo-discs-resonance-controllers?gclid=Cj0KCQjwqPGUBhDwARIsANNwjV4GoicJbSthDDQ5GTqX_k8LR7A9HiDkf-2ogvlfosgQENF31r38kDYaAksGEALw_wcB

Enea_

DavecUK I have something similar (urethane) for my amp, why for coffee?

LMSC

DavecUK You can save that money for some Mpingo discs

Giphy - Sarcastic Andy Samberg GIF 😉

CoyoteOldMan

Enea_ Do you place the urethane on top of your amp?

Enea_

Oh, you’re right, I didn’t read the description all the way through :-) They looked so much like the urethane thingies I put under the amp to stop vibrations. Ok, so worth it?

Edit: Nice reference! 😂

https://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index.html

dfk41

The vast majority of Youtubers are there for two reasons. Self promotion and to make money. Therefore can you really trust a word they say when they are seeking to protect those two things I mention. If you YT channel is monetised then that really tells you all that you need to know about a person. Then there are a very few people, who use Yt for different reasons. Their Yt channel is not monetised for starters. The reviews they actually do are written and merely backed up by video. They do not self promote. Ask yourself two questions. Is Lance Hendricks YT channel monetised and is our own @DavecUK YT channel monetised. I think the respective answers will be quite revealing.

DavecUK

dfk41 My YouTube channel is fully eligible for monetisation, but I don’t monetise it, or use affiliate links. I don’t monetise any of my online activities.

I mostly use it to store videos I use in written reviews, as part of evidence based reviewing. Sometimes I use it to make a video I think might be interesting like my ECM visit.

Evergreen88

dfk41 I don’t understand why you think someone being paid to do their job makes them unreliable. We are all paid to work (either by an employer or our customers) and each one of us is either honest or is not, regardless of where that paycheck is coming from.

I do not follow this guy so I don’t have an opinion but the video seems ‘fair’. Obviously making a bit of a fuss is good for business and to raise engagement, but that has always been the case in show business.

I actually disagree with his preference for light roasts and I think the niche would work pretty well for me.

CoyoteOldMan

dfk41 Sorry, I don’t agree that anyone monetising their online activities is automatically untrustworthy, or the reverse. Nor do I agree that ad hominem attacks are appropriate or productive.

As to the preference for written rather than ‘video’ content… sign of the times (and the ages), I’m afraid. I dislike it too, but I don’t find it a reason to discard video as a communication and learning medium.

Doram

Evergreen88 dfk41 I don’t understand why you think someone being paid to do their job makes them unreliable. We are all paid to work (either by an employer or our customers) and each one of us is either honest or is not, regardless of where that paycheck is coming from.

Not saying anything regarding this specific video, but just in relation to the general comment that being paid doesn’t mean a person is unreliable: This is only correct if the fact that the person is being paid is disclosed (or implied from the circumstances, for example, if it’s a salesperson in a shop wearing the shop’s uniform). If someone gives advice in a place where it isn’t implied that they are being paid, and they don’t disclose that they are in fact being paid, that on it’s own makes them unreliable (in my view), even if they actually give their honest opinion. It is up to the audience to decide how to treat the view, but they need to be given the correct information to make this decision. Again - not saying this in response to this specific video.

Unfortunately, it has become the norm that people get paid and hide it. I heard a program on the radio about Huel (meal replacement shakes). One of the interviewers on the show was ‘an expert’ who did ‘a scientific experiment’ that found that drinking those shakes is actually better for you than eating food. When asked if Huel funded this ‘research’ he answered ‘yes’, and then went on to explain how rigorous the research method was. I think we will agree that information about the funder is important to put things in context, and that omitting it would make it unreliable (even if the study itself follows the strictest standards and the researcher is the most honest person you’ve met).

LMSC

While David will reply, a YT-based revenue model as an income cannot be completely unbiased. They have self-interests; the comments, review and other things will have to guard that self-interest. Otherwise, they will disappear threatening their livelihood. Let’s not forget they also have to put food on the table for their family.

The downside is many innocent consumers get caught in the cross-fire because popular XYZ endorses them. This is a brutal commercially motivated world with no regard or concern for the mass. We have seen JH ripping the Aldi or £100 machines apart, but not certain brands even if they aren’t even up to certain standards. But, he leaves enough guarded hints for his followers to decipher.

Similarly, this guy has achieved his objective by touching the most popular product in the prosumer coffee segment. It is up to us as individuals to decide if he is biased, balanced, and so on.

Unfortunately, the public — those who get influenced — are always at the receiving end. I empathise with them.

This is true in the case of food industry, FMCG, electronics and so on.

I love watching JH’s video and also like watching LH’s channel. As a coffee lover, I learnt something from them. So, their revenue model doesn’t bother me as an individual. 😊

DavecUK

CoyoteOldMan Hopefully we’re all sensible enough to understand that some channels are monetised and what impact this “may” have on content, especially as these channels tend to have to have 1 or 2 new videos a week to stay relevant. All of us have an idea about what we want from these channels, entertainment, opinion, information etc..

I highly recommend LH Latte art videos, I find them informative, educational and useful, other videos not so much, such as the Lagom Mini where after 25m of video, I had still not seen the grinder grind a full dose, or a shot extract from a machine after grinding with said grinder. In the first example, I went seeking information and found it…in the second, I wasted 25m of my life.

This shows that all online reviews can be a bit of a curates egg. I have enjoyed some videos from the various YT sites like Hoffman, Spromethius etc.. and some I have not.

Personally I will use a video if that explains things better, or often use YT as a handy video repository for evidence based reviewing. I don’t really have a channel and don’t ask for subscribers because my YT activities are not that of a channel for clicks, views and likes. I also do much much less public reviewing nowadays. Preferring to work in the background on issues I believe really matter for the consumer and in a very specific consumer segment.

Overall, if people want to make a living and sometimes a very significant income from these channels, good luck to them. I’m not the policeman of the internet, or the protector of the consumer. If I am asked, or in a discussion I will generally give my opinion, because I think we’re still allowed to do that. Mostly I just mind my own business (except on very rare occasions). If people see these YouTube sites and base their buying decisions, or not, on them, it’s no skin off my nose (and we should all feel like that). Just as we should all feel free to express opinions. So if 1000s of people decide not to buy a Niche based on LH video, and buy something else, so what…down to them.

Lastly I think it’s fair to always keep in mind:

P.S. The very rare occasions are; when I feel the consumer is being massively misled and am currently weighing up whether to publish my Elektra Verve engineering review or not. Especially as a YT channel has popped up heavily promoting the Verve, a machine I believe should not be sold as it is!

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