Is Coffee healthy ?

Ernie1 It’s perfectly possible to be a healthy vegan or vegetarian. But you have to work hard at it and supplement for example B vitamins. Fundamentally there’s no argument other than homosapiens are omnivorous. We’ve evolved to have massive brains and (one) tiny stomach. Cows by comparison have tiny brains and several stomachs. Homosapiens are apex predators. That’s simple evolutionary fact. We invented tools and discovered fire. The cows eat the grass. We eat cow. Make of that what you will this is evolutionary biology!

Grahamsphillips

BTW by seed oils, do u mean oils made from the seeds as opposed to the pulp of the fruit? Why are they bad? Sincr both olive oil and palm oil are noy made from seed but from pulp, would you consider both to be healthier than seed oils?

Grahamsphillips

I think we definitely need meat as part of our diet unless as u said we supplement artificially. I believe all the traditional societies that are famed for producing overall better health and the most centenarians tend to eat meat as part of their diet except for the seventh day adventists of linda loma. However all of those other societies and cultures eat much more plant based foods compared to meat and meat is eaten sparingly - typically two or three times a week. Would u agree with that evidence from their experience that while meat is necessary, it ought to form a relative lesser part of our diet and plant and fruit based foods should form the vast majority? (The ratio is something like 5 per cent of total caloric intake coming from meat sources if the diet of the Ikarians is any guide))

chlorox I think we definitely need meat as part of our diet unless as u said we supplement artificially.

As above, I’ve not read papers on this but rather basing it on lived experiences. I’ve not touched an artificial supplement in my life. I don’t even take vitamins.

I agree plant-based diets need attention to ensure the correct range of nutrition is being received, but I’ve obtained this entirely from plant sources.

I know there are things people say aren’t obtainable from purely plant based sources but again, after years of a plant based diet and feeling great, I do struggle to see their necessity given I’ve not noticed any ill effects.

If we needed meat to survive or be healthy surely I’d have noticed a health detriment having not consumed any for years. We’re talking 10 years+ too not 6 months or something. In fact I’ve only eaten meat once in almost 20 years.

Perhaps it comes down to the notion that we are all unique. What works for me might not work for the next person etc.

Sorry again not trying to be antagonistic. I just see a lot of this ‘we need meat’ ‘only meat contains X’. And maybe certain studies have found this but by that logic I’d presumably be dead or at least in poor health. And I’m not.

I can see the enjoyment in eating meat and fish, and I don’t care what others eat but I’m still not sure I buy into the idea that we can’t survive healthily purely on plant sources.

Ernie1

Apparently according to what the medical sources on the web suggest there are some trace subtances, minerals and vitamins like B12, D3, calcium, iron, iodine, zinc, essential amino acids, and omega 3 that one cannot get entirely from plants or may not get enough from purely plant sources due to very low bioavailabiltiy or being blocked by the activity of phytates for instance. Which leads me to suspect that meat needs to be part of the human diet for that reason but not necessarily to be a major part - all the so called blue zones where more people tend to live to a very old age and still be physically and mentally vigorous seem to subsist mainly on real foods as Graham has mentioned, but mostly real plant foods with comparatively very little meat to supplement it.

Cuprajake

The climate thing is just part of the Marxist sourced postmodern and woke agenda or movement that is trying to overthrow the current philosophical and economic and political and cultural landscape in the name of social and environmental ‘justice’ for an allegedly oppressed climste/social or race or gender or sexuality based class and rewrite it to invest power in the hands of a new elite, gaining complicity from the corporate world that is trying to continue lining its pockets while not understanding the nature of the monster that it is feeding and existing under the misapprehension that they control it. They who don’t understand the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it - and the Communist bullet rhat previous generations in the west evaded decades ago has returned in the name of the “progressive” left but this time, has already infilttated and taken over the science and humanities and linguistics faculties of all its universities and brainwashed imost of ts youth into joining its ranks……unlike the culture wars of the 1960s and 60s that was won by democracy defeating communism, the culture in Europe and Liberal America gas become so left leaning that it could be more leftist than the society in China. The culture war in the west has already been won by the progressive left thanks to neglect of what academia and the media have been teaching the young…now most people think its OK to destroy the business and sack people for expressing their freedom of speech or religion. Most people think its OK to use peer pressure and shame abd economic pressure to force people to repeat what u want them to say and that its OK to compel speech from others. There is little or no understanding of the concept of “I may disagree with what u say but I will defend to the death your right to say it” that was the bulwark of true classical Liberal philosophy. It looks bleak for the future of the western civilisation unless this trend can somehow be reversed.

DavecUK

I am not as interested in keys’ findings concerning saturated fat and raised blood cholesterol as I am about his dietary recommendations especiallyvia a vis the Mediterranean diet. However with reference to your analogy, there may be an association between heavy drinking and heavier intake of calories including of saturated fats in their diet - see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34611697/#:\~:text=Heavy%20drinkers%20consumed%20more%20total,and%20saturated%20fat%20in%20grams (although it was tested in a hiv positive population)…and if so then the alcoholic beer drinker may not eat much in the pub, but he may be packing away more bacon rashers and steaks at home than teetotaling contemporaries…

My uneducated suspicion is that rather than the nature of the fats being consumed (other than trans fat and oxidised fats which are bad), the real issue is the obesity factor where total caloric intake greatly exceeds one’s actual need leading to the balance being stored as fat in the body and liver - where that issue exists it seems entirely expected to me for blood cholesterol to increase substantially to the degree of such issue and that would be accelerated by genetic factors etc.