Is Coffee healthy ?

DavecUK And seed oils of course!

DavecUK

Grahamsphillips

I thought keys’ main recommendation was that the Mediterranean diet was the ideal diet thar he thought was best for health. Does the Mediterranean diet fall in the category of healthy diets for you?

On your criticism against keys, what do you think of this White Paper on his 7 nations study that responds to the criticisms often made in contemporary times against his study, which include the things raised by Dave also?

https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/38/42/3119/4600167

Without the intention of starting an argument, I’m genuinely curious as clearly people in this thread have done some extensive reading of research and papers and frankly I haven’t.

If we need meat to survive, how is it that after a number of years of eating purely plant-based foods I feel better at 40 than I ever have done? Gained almost 35lbs in muscle, feel more alert and generally more energetic. I still eat the processed stuff, cakes, I eat pizzas as often as I did, and drink as much beer.

I’m not saying I necessarily believe that meat/dairy is harmful, nor that a vegan diet is any ‘better’ than any other and I still think the important thing is you eat what makes you happy, whatever that is. But I’m curious as to why we ‘need’ animal based foodstuffs to thrive? If indeed that’s been said anywhere at all.

Maybe it’s all the coffee.

Ernie1 It’s perfectly possible to be a healthy vegan or vegetarian. But you have to work hard at it and supplement for example B vitamins. Fundamentally there’s no argument other than homosapiens are omnivorous. We’ve evolved to have massive brains and (one) tiny stomach. Cows by comparison have tiny brains and several stomachs. Homosapiens are apex predators. That’s simple evolutionary fact. We invented tools and discovered fire. The cows eat the grass. We eat cow. Make of that what you will this is evolutionary biology!

Grahamsphillips

BTW by seed oils, do u mean oils made from the seeds as opposed to the pulp of the fruit? Why are they bad? Sincr both olive oil and palm oil are noy made from seed but from pulp, would you consider both to be healthier than seed oils?

Grahamsphillips

I think we definitely need meat as part of our diet unless as u said we supplement artificially. I believe all the traditional societies that are famed for producing overall better health and the most centenarians tend to eat meat as part of their diet except for the seventh day adventists of linda loma. However all of those other societies and cultures eat much more plant based foods compared to meat and meat is eaten sparingly - typically two or three times a week. Would u agree with that evidence from their experience that while meat is necessary, it ought to form a relative lesser part of our diet and plant and fruit based foods should form the vast majority? (The ratio is something like 5 per cent of total caloric intake coming from meat sources if the diet of the Ikarians is any guide))

chlorox I think we definitely need meat as part of our diet unless as u said we supplement artificially.

As above, I’ve not read papers on this but rather basing it on lived experiences. I’ve not touched an artificial supplement in my life. I don’t even take vitamins.

I agree plant-based diets need attention to ensure the correct range of nutrition is being received, but I’ve obtained this entirely from plant sources.

I know there are things people say aren’t obtainable from purely plant based sources but again, after years of a plant based diet and feeling great, I do struggle to see their necessity given I’ve not noticed any ill effects.

If we needed meat to survive or be healthy surely I’d have noticed a health detriment having not consumed any for years. We’re talking 10 years+ too not 6 months or something. In fact I’ve only eaten meat once in almost 20 years.

Perhaps it comes down to the notion that we are all unique. What works for me might not work for the next person etc.

Sorry again not trying to be antagonistic. I just see a lot of this ‘we need meat’ ‘only meat contains X’. And maybe certain studies have found this but by that logic I’d presumably be dead or at least in poor health. And I’m not.

I can see the enjoyment in eating meat and fish, and I don’t care what others eat but I’m still not sure I buy into the idea that we can’t survive healthily purely on plant sources.