I am in a current dilemma, Been awaiting the Synesso ES1 to make a final decision but according to a local vendor it won't hit near us until December and the price range is in $9-10k (Way beyond the budget). My current setup is a Lelit Bianca V2+ Lagom P100+Niche+Kopi Deva So my choices are either: 1- LA GS3 MP. 2- Any Saturated Group head that is worth it. 3- Safe Lever Machine (is there one?). 4- Just forget about upgrading. The Bianca is so decent I find it hard to find an upgrade. Use is mainly 50% Sunshine Lattes, 50% Underworld dark drinks.

\~ACS Vesuvius or ACE Evo or Decent!

I'd make a list of what you want from it.

Are you upgrading for upgrades' sake, or do you feel your current combo is missing something?

Have a look at https://www.sanremomachines.com/en/products/you/ (Edited: previously suggested that the Nurri Leva may have been a "safe" lever but that is not the case.)

What's life without a little danger ![Giphy - Steve Irwin Danger GIF](https://media0.giphy.com/media/LpkLWXTp0v0qy70xPp/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869fwiddj5crsyh7hfqnaejlaerqyfs0qsghuc6stdr9&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

> @"Otaibimn"#p24681 4- Just forget about upgrading. ![Giphy - Schitts Creek Comedy GIF by CBC](https://media0.giphy.com/media/jQDbxgBuGcsbkd1C47/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869fkiv0o5i2s3a4xcwe6d2rmtcahczb0b8ggazagyh0&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

I often wonder, if you could assemble a veritable line of coffee machines on a bench, and then someone put earphones and a blindfold and brought you random coffee one after the other.........would you actually learn anything! When I used to practice Transcendental Meditation, following a group session we were all asked to share our experiences in a couple of short sentences........my own contribution was 'TM is like having an itch, but it does not really matter......the itch that does not itch'.

@"tompoland"#p24686 I'm not sure the Nurri is 'safe'. It's safe from portafilter sneeze (as long as one remembers to release the pressure with the paddle), but the lever itself is free to move. Not that avoidance of portafilter sneeze is anything to - ahem - sniff about, as I can attest even from this morning, when I changed beans and choked the machine… As far as I know, only the LM Leva-X/Leva-S and (some?) Kees van der Westen lever machines have 'safe' levers with a clutch preventing unintended release, but they are priced beyond even @"Otaibimn"#p24681 's very generous budget (at least new). This said, in 2 months of lever machine use (and a couple of slips…), the victims have been 2 coffee cups and a healthy respect for the 250 kg of force the springs exert once fully compressed. However, I think the stories of broken jaws have to refer to coffee-shop environments where multiple levers are 'on the move' and people are in a rush; I really can't see that sort of accident happening in a home.

@"Cuprajake"#p24687 I miss this man 😢

@"Otaibimn"#p24681 if you just want to satisfy a buying urge, may as well put a punt on the odyssey Argos. Otherwise GS3 seems nice. Where I am you can sometimes see them floating on the used market for roughly 20% more than a Decent

Upgraditius hits again!

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

Whether acs has dealers as well tos.ell the evo in certain countries is not relevant to the point I was making in my original post though. I was responding to the OP who clearly doesn’t have a dealer in his country for the acs and so had to import it into the country himself and it would incur him 5200 euros in the end. I was instead suggesting that he can check if nurri has dealers in his country because as far as I have seen on the net, there has never been any price quoted for the nurri leva by any of its dealers worldwide which has equalled or exceeded 5200 euros. Hence it is likely IF he can find a dealer for nurri in his country, that he can get a similar cheaper price and thus he can find then nurri fitting within his budget. I pointed out also among othere that the nurri has the same features that the acs has.

Secondly you don’t agree with me that the nurri has the same function or ability as the acs where it regards the PID. You gave the reasons that since the nurri only has one pid, that this may not be able to provide as good temperature management as the 3 pid can give for the acs. My response to you is simply that what you say may be technically correct (pr it may not), but you are saying something completely different from what I am saying. Qhat you say gies to the how well that function is discharged - in this csse thermal management and cintrol of the grouphead, brew boiler and steam boiler. Even if the nurri is poor at doing that function due to having only one pod - which is not provable by either of us since neither of us own a nurri - that doesn’t change the fact the nurri has that function, as opposed to my izzo for instance that utterly lacks such ability to electronically and swiftly change the temperature of those components to whatever temperature I want it to be save through a laborious ordeal of setting the pressurestat and measuring and flushing and measuring etc. Apples and oranges…

Thirdly I do value the dealer support very much as I am a klutz mechanically! You are likelymuch more adept at fixing the machine and repairing it yourself but for me and other consumers who don’t have the inclination or the time to do so, that is a very important factor.

LMSC

chlorox I was responding to the OP who clearly doesn’t have a dealer in his country for the acs and so had to import it into the country himself and it would incur him 5200 euros in the end. I was instead suggesting that he can check if nurri has dealers in his country

DW about it. No one on this forum doubts the genuine intent to suggest the OP with alternatives. Much appreciated mate! 😊

LMSC

chlorox Even if the nurri is poor at doing that function due to having only one pod - which is not provable by either of us since neither of us own a nurri

We know @DavecUK, had this for a while to provide a technical / engineering review. Until some one owns it or see an unbiased (?) review, only Dave can provide us some pointers in this direction. He may not. Until then, it will be purely speculative.

edit :

Not sure, we have a thread for Nurri! 😊

LMSC

I see the 1 or 2 adding some value to those at home — those who may be intimidated to use the lever, given the force it is going to generate. My wife may probably use it without any fear, if I get an electric grinder. I have jokingly given the lever as one of her core strength building goals! 🤣

The feature to address chocking is perhaps ok. As David said, one can retard the lever. I remember the very first shot of my Evo. I deliberately chocked the Evo to see what she does. She took a little more than 4.5 mins to finish the shot at 6 bars. The coffee - definitely not sinkable. Perfect as a flat white. I waited!

The rest, IMO, are marketing.

But, it’s good to have choices as far as the customers are concerned. I liked the openess of the Evo - right from conceptualisation to production and the involvement of Dave. That’s what attracted me to Evo, although we all waited for good 6 months to see the first production machine.

chlorox

LMSC It is important not to create a clique of evo users here to the extent that all products viewed as a threat to the evo are then subjected to criticism even when they are mentioned in a thread where their merits vis a vis each other are not being compared at all … our interests as consumers is to encourage innovation in design and function, and let us see how the market over time will shake it all out. Those features that are adopted as being useful will be identified by market forces in the end and all manufacturers in that market will in the end have to introduce those features or lose market share. Let us not forget that even the idea of using heat cartridges in the grouphead to control temperature there that is used by the evo is an innovation that has still yet to take root in the market and may in time eithee become de riguer or fall by the wayside…So IMHO it may be premature to pass judgment on a certain feature until we have had a chance to use it in practice and it may grow on us…

chlorox

MediumRoastSteam What you said is a valid consideration and that longer track record is definitely something to put into one’s decisionn making. There is always a risk when encountering a new product.

However i reiterate that this discussion is not about comparing the nurri and the evo and arguing which is the better machine and which produces better tasting shots and which has more useful features. To return yet again to why I brought up the nurri here in the first place, the OP was not going to buy the evo as it is too expensive for him to import, and it was for that reason that I proposed to him the nurri which is the nearest machine to the acs in the world on the off chance that his country has a nurri dealer…

What I find interesting is that as soon as I did that, there is an almost reflexive reaction here to defend the evo and to run down the nurri. Why?

MediumRoastSteam

chlorox What I find interesting is that as soon as I did that, there is an almost reflexive reaction here to defend the evo and to run down the nurri

I understand your argument. I don’t think people are going against the Nurri as such. I do think however that, as you say, the extra features coupled with the unproven track record and “closed development” make it all a bit “interesting”. For instance, I also don’t see the point of backflushing a lever, but I see the point of an emergency way to depressurise the group.

I’d love to see an in depth review and demo of the Nurri, inside and out, and I don’t think I’m alone here.

By all means it looks like a great machine - on paper at least. 👍

LMSC

chlorox What I find interesting is that as soon as I did that, there is an almost reflexive reaction here to defend the evo and to run down the nurri. Why?

I think this is sadly a mistaken view. From where do you get this impression please? Are we expecting the members not to air their views on a machine that they had seen from conceptualisation to real time use and question the merits and demerits of the added features from a new machine? We all are matured, sensible, friendly and open here.

Members are just expressing their views and asking why we believe the added features of Nurri are important or bring any additional advantages over Evo? You or anyone except Dave won’t be able to answer why those features are important. We need to wait for the real users performances to kick in. Until then, it is a matter of diacussion.

I seriously doubt there will a performance difference. Nurri should be as capable a machine as the Evo. Both use the same xerox copy of the LM group, no?

End of the day, the customers stand benefitted.

chlorox

MediumRoastSteam I agree the interactive development of the acs evo has been quite a benefit to potential consumers and that is down to the contribution of Dave.

Having said that though i wouldn’t say the nurri is developed in a ‘closed’ manner. Rather it’s development is the normal sort of development that manufacturers will engage in as what was done for the evo is unprecedented and only made possible due to Dave.

I do find the nurri very interesting and even tempting to try out. Having a dealership network is important to me and that unfortinately rules out the evo as an option for me so I hope acs expands it’s network of dealers more in the coming years.

chlorox

LMSC dave has reiterated many times that he won’t be sharing his views as that is between him.and Antonio. But anyway the point I was making to CoyoteOldMan was rather that it doesn’t matter if the nurri is good or bad at it for rhe purposes of my statement in my original post because I was saying that the nurri and the evo have the same functions - eg of being able to thermo regulate temperature in all three components. How well it does this is a different discussion altogether. Hence and with respect, for him.to suggest I was being “potentially misleading” in what I was saying, is not correct and not really fair…

tompoland

LMSC indeed we have https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/476-nurri-leva-sa/67

@Viernes has a Nurri and offered quite a few thoughts in numerous posts on the above thread.

Knluk

chlorox it sounds like a very interesting machine to me. The only minor drawback is the size, esp the depth of 58cm, making it challenging to fit in most worktop. Fortunately, it is a snazzy looking machine. It can be your centre piece in the living room to shine

I read that Antonio was originally developing a small machine but changed to the current size for some reason.

chlorox

Knluk yes it is very deep indeed. I suspect it was because he was designing it to resist tipping but I don’t have any inside knowledge of why. At least the machine isnt as massive as my pompei - although it is slightly less deep, it towers over the counter (and my kitchen) like Mont Blanc!

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox I think we are more aligned on the intent and purpose than it may seem - apologies if I have upset you. I do remain of the opinion (well founded technically - I have a background in freaking electronic engineering and control systems) that 1 single PID is not a replacement for 3 self-contained ones. Whether that in the end produces the same thermal stability results, remains to be seen…

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox As for massiveness of size, i judge the evo and the nurri from.a different vantage point LOL - to me as the owner of a izzo pompei, both machines look smaller actually compared to the izzo!

The Izzo is definitely quite a bit wider than either of the other two - and the two-tier tray cup adds to the impression of bulk. Sizes from manufacturers or dealer web-sites, except for the Izzo’s tray height and depth, which I had to estimate from photos at 20 h x 17 d cm (if you can take a measurement, I’d be more than happy to update the images below). Profiles exclude levers - which all end up at roughly the same height (between 78.5 and 80 cm)

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

Like most people who own a pompei both trays on mine are chock-full with cups etc so I am used to seeing the entire bulk as one huge wall of espresso making goodness in my kitchen…

dfk41

chlorox What you will save by buying direct (approximately 40%) you will be more than able to pay an engineer to sort any problems, bearing in mind the warranty of parts plus help is for 24 months. Earlier on in this thread you mentioned an advantage of the Nurri is with it being longer it will make it more difficult to tip. This is a guess (!) but I do not think anyone has tipped their Evo yet (and I have tried!). @Stevebee uses his in a commercial setting and has even taken the additional weights out of the machine.
The Evo and Nurri are similar in many ways. Did you know Antonio used to work for Paolo?

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox Which - IMHO - is one thing that makes the Izzo look nice, especially the two-tiers and the way in which the shelves’ sides are ‘curved’. It does look as if it belongs in an old-style Neapolitan coffee house.

chlorox

LMSC As I have explained repeatedly, rhe reason why I was bemused by the reactions to defend the evo by dismissing the need or utility of those additional features is that they were done in response to me stating that there are those features as a matter of fact and then answering a question on what they were. At no point was I suggesting that the nurri was superior to the evo or to be preferred orbthat those features made the nurri better. I believe I even pointed out whether they were useful dependent on the user. In fact the OP had already stated he would not consider the evo as it is too expensive to import and I was merely suggesting the nurri instead for him to consider in those circs.

chlorox

tompoland

Looking forward to your review when you get it next month!

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan I understand what you are saying. I would prefer 3 separate pid myself as a layman as it makes sense to me that to entrust 3 control systems to manage 3 components is always tending to be better than entrusting the same jobs to just one controller from a common sense viewpoint…

Knluk

CoyoteOldMan that’s a good point. I had concern on that after hearing that issue. I actually wrote to Paolo and he assured that “we are very precise in that (temperature precision)”. I am hopeless in technical matters but I trust Antonio has done various testing before he makes that claims? So, I tend to the Nurri has some design to make the 1 PID does the job?

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan it is a gem of a machine and it’s like a corner of naples in my kitchen!

tompoland

chlorox me too! But shipping now put back to end of September so expecting it end of November.

This year, hopefully 🙂

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